Greatest Warrior of All Time


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5,798 thoughts on “Greatest Warrior of All Time

  1. Dear Sanjay,

    Your statement-”So ONE needs to accept the equation first and understand the rule and procedure to perform experiment before negating or accepting the equation.”

    My ans- Here, You are advocating for reversing the order of acceptance of a science equation….. Science does not follow a reverse process of accepting an equation…. E.g. if a scientist invents a new chemical equation, then he has to prove it by showing a practical demo of this reaction to all & then only people will accept his equation…… But you want the people to accept the equation first & then try to prove it with laboratory experiments(which cant be ever done to your supernatural theories)…. Nobody is going to buy your theories like this Sanjay bhai…..

    Your statement-”One cannot say that I do not believe in the equation just because I have not seen anyone proving it in lab or otherwise.”

    My ans- If a person X claims to a person Y that he can fly in air without any machine’s help, then Y has all the right to say that he does not believe in his claim & so the onus is on X to prove his claim by actually flying in front of Y….. Untill then you cannot expect Y to just presume that the claim of X is acceptable…..

    Your statement-”The fact of the matter is that somehow this rubbish equation came from somewhere.”

    My ans- This “Somewhere” is nothing but “Interpolators’ brain”….. If you acknowledge this simple logic then you wont be stressing your brain for understanding the Supernatural events……

    Fekne waale to kuch bhi fek ke chale jaate hai(just like the supernatural interpolatons in MB)…… leking aap pe depend karta hai ki kya jhelna hai, aur kya chhodna hai……

    Agar aap har kisi feku ki baaton ko seriously lene lage to, aap ke dimaag ko bhatakte der nahi lagengi…. Just like previously i threw a simple bluff example of “Tendulkar having a boon to become so succesfull” & you bought it without even thinking about my bluff….. So i would also request you to expand your horizons of understanding by thinking this way as well, rather than accepting these supernatural events straightway…..

    Your statement-”Having delivered my sermon on the issue I agree with Smarty – why our country is not known by the name of Yudi or Asoka?”

    My ans- Buddy, you are again jumping into the conclusion without investigating the facts…. And the fact is that there are various theories in which our country’s name “Bharat” has been presumed to be derived from names of variable people depending on the respective theory…. e.g Some say that it is derived from King Bharat(of MB), Some say that it is derived from King Bharat(Younger brother of Ram), According to Srimad Bhagavatam it is derived from a rishi named as Jatayu Bharat…. etc… etc…. So how can you accept this claim that it is derived from King Bharat(of MB) only ??

    Your statement-”But yes there is a big time confusion if Ashwamedha yaga was the supreme of all yagas as perceived by us? Have we ever heard of anyone defeating the king who performed Ashwamedha yaga and made him go back? NO.”

    My ans- Yes, Ashwamedh Yagya was the supreme of all yagas as per scriptures…. And as per the rules of Ashwamedh Yagya, if one defending king defeats the attacking king, then his Ashwamedh Yagya is deemed as unsuccesfull….. Hence defeating all the kings(or subjugating them) was the compulsory basic rule of Ashwamedh Yagya…..

    Your statement-”All such yagas were performed after some significant big time war which annihilated the numerous kingdoms and powers of those times. So it was kind of a formal obligation on the part of the survivor to take control of the entire earth to rule so that a proper world order could be put in place. This would also let him rule peacefully without fearing of any rebel or challenge.”

    My ans- It is your opinion only….. Not an obligation…. King Duleep performed his Ashwamedh Yagya where no prior significant big time war happedned which annihilated the numerous kingdoms and powers of those times……. But yes after MB war, the job of Pandavas was much easier to complete Ashwamedh Yagya… But Pandavas did their Rajsuay Yagya when most of the powerful kings were alive, hence it is further creditable…..

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  2. @ Dabbang,

    Your statement-”defeated in jst 1 round.sachin at leat gave me some fyt”

    My ans- Ha…ha…ha…ha… Ispar mujhe ek kahavat yaad aa gayi-”APNE MUH MIYAN MITTHOO”…. Dont behave like a sour loser Mr Dabbang….

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  3. guys you are giving undue importance. if they are making personal abuses than report.

    this is the rule of any foul debate, Sawaal ka Jawaab gaali aur gaali ka jawaab laath.

    if someone is accusing you being Gay than prove he is indulge in beasteality why stop there accused him of having sex with aliens.

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  4. guys you must remember vinny the pooh’s and piglets by the nameo f hashi mehra and aniket777(andnumerous others), who have been inviting us to their ae, well id id. and guess who i found there, mr. gaurav kotian who had been silenciod safely by mr. niraj and i have posted in some coomenets about glories of arjun and i fear i will now be blocked

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    • the admin of the page is so patheic that he deleted my comments regarding arjun’s one of the gr8est triumphs. apparently he knew that they were nothing but facts

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        • the credit goes to Dhruv for being fair and impartial which allows Sachin and Anand to share their views without any interruption. I thank Dhruv on behalf of both of them.

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          • sanjay,
            you are absolutely correct.
            there is no fun being on a blog , sitting idle.

            anyway, i have come to understand that the admin as well as shashi mehra of thsat is a bunch of shite and are total douchebags. they are now sending me offensive emails, and i being a gentleman, am replying in almost same tone but cannot quite reach their level of indian gaalies

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    • Shashi Mehra is different. He really exists. He is not gaurav kotian. He had abused a friend of mine on karna vs arjuna facebook. later on here I just mildly asked that whether he was aniket 777 later on when my friend told me than I sized him up but afterwards our interaction was cut from here and i wasnt exactly heartbroken.

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      • niraj bhai,
        the thing you said “jigar me dum nahi par hum kisi se kam nahi” really applies to those guys.0
        .the adin of the page ,(without any debate) blocked me from the page., within half an hour from my post

        suffice it to say, that the admin of that page is a mass of crap joint togethor by a cohesive force of cowardness, i am a little disappointed that they being a follower of arjun do not exactly possess any of his non-battlefield qualities. i really wanted a debate with those guys but now i know what kind of flobberworms they are. i won’t bother again

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  5. Dear Smartboy,

    Your statement-”according to you the thing which you cant understand is false right. that means a chemical equation which you cant memorize or understand is nonsense. this is your rule of life.”

    My ans- You mean to say that everything which is not understandable should be taken as a truth blindly ?? I am not a person like you who would believe in any rubbish written word in a book….

    The interpolators may fool a person like you by adding the description like “King Bharat performed 1000 Ashwamedh Yagyas” or “Krishna had divin powers” etc, but not me…..

    A chemical equation which i cant understand is not a nonsense….. but a Chemical reaction which cannot be explained by anyone or which cannot be proved by a laboratory practical is Non-sense….. And “King Bharat performed 1000 Ashwamedh Yagyas” is one such non-sense…..

    Your statement-”if establishing supremacy is the only thing than it cannot be done by performing any yagna. military conquest is enough. can by performing 1000 yagnas a king can say i have conquered the world? so what is the point of doing a yagna than ?”

    My ans- Smarty, instead of arguing with me on this point, if you had spent your time in reading the meanings of aswamedha/rajasuya Yagya, then you wouldnt have been talking like a “lost man in the jungle” here…..

    You still dont know the meanings of aswamedha or rajasuya Yagya….. You also dont know the difference between “Yagyas of military Conquest” & “Yagyas of Ritual importance”…..

    “Yagyas of Ritual importance” had whatsoever no relation with military conquest…..

    While,

    “Yagyas of military Conquest” like aswamedha, rajasuya Yagya etc were actually Military conquest only, but they were suffixed with a Symbolic Yagya Name(Like aswamedha or rajasuya Yagya), so that every other King of India should know the intentions of the Yagya performing King for his conquest…..

    E.g. If a king wants to prove himself as the strongest king of India( i.e. to become a Samraat) & to estabilish his dominance over whole India. For this, that king will be required to defeat every king of india(which is done in Rajsuya Yagya)…. But if suppose that King starts his military conquest without officially declaring his intention of becoimg a Samraat, then all the other kings wont be knowing his intentions & everybody will think that this kings is attacking their kingdom to capture it, hence the defending king will fight till death to save the sovereignity of his kingdom…. So the attacking king will be forced to kill the defending king unnecessarily…..

    So in order to avoid such misunderstandings, the Brahmins of MB times had invented the Symbolic Military Yagyas like aswamedha, rajasuya Yagya etc, in order to let every other king know the intentions of the attacking king, as evry king of India knew the meaning of such military Yagyas ….. Hence because of this, a lot of blood shedding was avoided…..

    Your statement-”after completion of ashwamedha yagna , why yudi ruled only over Indraprastra and not the whole of India. did yudi have his throne all over India or he used to command his subordinates based from Indraprastra?”

    My ans- Ha…ha…ha… Sorry, couldnt control my laugh after reading you funny lines….. I suggest you read the meanings of aswamedha, rajasuya Yagya etc & then argue with me…. By the way, Ram also performed his Ashwamedh Yagya, so do you mean to day that Ram only ruled over Ayodhya & not over whole India ?? ….

    Yudi ruled over whole India is a fact from Vyas MB…. You need a wake up call about your sleeping Mythological knowledged Smarty….

    Your statement-”Arjuna and bhimsen did not spread their kingdom. this is basic fact. they fought war for YUDI not for themselves. they tried to spread their supremacy not land mass.”

    My ans- Very illogical claim…. Arjun & Bhima were not the kings, but they were the follower of their elder brother Yudi, so why would they establish their own kingdom & spread it ?? Arjun/Bhima indeed spread their kingdom Indraprasth/Hastinapur via Ashwamedh/Rajsuya Yagya…. while on the contrary, Karna & Drona were kings of their respective independent kingdoms, but still they never dared to spread their kingdoms…. And Bhishma was a subordinate to Chitrangad/Vichitrvirya/Dhritrashtra, but still he never attempted to spread the boundaries of Hastinapur…..

    Your statement-”similarly Karna did not spread his own kingdom he tried to spread his master supremacy.”

    My ans- Because Karna was incompetent to spread his own kingdom Angdesh with the help of his own small army, & he did the Vaishnava Yagya only because he had the support of large Hastinapur army…..

    Your statement-”this would be speculation only, going by the own words of Karna and bhisma , Krishna establishes his supremacy over others by killing Narakashura . it was their own words.”

    My ans- Very funny…. if words are so important to you, then you should give more importance to the own words of Krishna who accepted that he ran away from Mathura due to fear of Jarasandh rather than giving importance to words of Karna/Bhishma…..

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    • dear sachin, why are accusing me . this is the same book who has given us a nonsense Virat war.

      1000 aswamedha yagna or virat war , both are humanly impossible.

      both are glorious nonsense.

      but still why our country is not named after ASHOKA, YUDI etc.

      if karna of MB was kingdom hungry, he would have accepted Krishna’s proposal. yudi had no problem in making Karna the king.

      duryo was Karna’s master. ok

      every people do work for their own, hardly for others . Karna is respected more than any other character only becs of that.

      and drona was king of no kingdom.

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    • Dear Smarty & Sachin,

      What one knows is obviously not rubbish but what is known to others but not known to one self is not impossible either. If THAT ONE follows or accepts what others know then also it does not become blind faith either. In such a case THAT ONE needs to expand one’s horizon to match up with others. As said rightly by Sachin if no experiment is performed in the lab to prove the equation, the equation does not hold any relevance. So ONE needs to accept the equation first and understand the rule and procedure to perform experiment before negating or accepting the equation. One cannot say that I do not believe in the equation just because I have not seen anyone proving it in lab or otherwise. The fact of the matter is that somehow this rubbish equation came from somewhere.

      Issue of 1000 Ashwamedh yaga can either be called glorious non-sense or made relevant by accepting that much longer lives could make this possible. In case we do not believe in either of them both becomes rubbish for us. However, the logic says why such things keep popping their heads at every step in our mythologies. The question becomes more important with the fact that all of these were not written by a single author who could be blamed for his rubbish fantasy trip to a fairy world. This is why I keep saying that let us expand our horizons by making sincere attempts to understand why such things were common part and parcel of these mythologies. Obviously just negating them (without getting into lab to perform experiment) will not help us.

      Having delivered my sermon on the issue I agree with Smarty – why our country is not known by the name of Yudi or Asoka?

      I also agree with Sachin that every yaga had its own importance. I also agree with the ritual of performing yagas even for military feats. We need to understand the mindset of that time. When kshatiryas could never part their ways with their weapons and their worshipping them or celebrating their military feats by offering yaga to deities could be no strange fact. But yes there is a big time confusion if Ashwamedha yaga was the supreme of all yagas as perceived by us? Have we ever heard of anyone defeating the king who performed Ashwamedha yaga and made him go back? NO. All such yagas were performed after some significant big time war which annihilated the numerous kingdoms and powers of those times. So it was kind of a formal obligation on the part of the survivor to take control of the entire earth to rule so that a proper world order could be put in place. This would also let him rule peacefully without fearing of any rebel or challenge.
      Whereas Rajsuya yaga was always done to earn the title of Samrat but since sovereignty was never compromised it meant that it was a hafta-vasooli arrangement. May be it was like appointing one student as monitor in the class to ensure that a common code of conduct is implemented. Yudi doing so to uphold dharma in Aryavat society made this sense and logic.

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  6. Hearing these words of Vidura, both Yudhishthira, and Pandit’s son Arjuna of curly hair, became very glad and applauded them highly. Bhima, however, of great energy and unappeasable wrath, did not accept those words of Vidura in good spirits, recollecting the acts of Duryodhana. The diadem-decked Phalguna, understanding the thoughts of Bhimasena, slightly bending his face downwards, addressed that foremost of men in these words, ‘O Bhima, our royal father who is advancing in years, has resolved to retire into the woods. He wishes to make gifts for advancing the happiness of his slain kinsmen and well-wishers now in the other world. O thou of Kuru’s race, he wishes to give away wealth that belongs to thee by conquest. Indeed, O mighty-armed one, it is for Bhishma and others that the old king is desirous of making those gifts. It behoves thee to grant thy permission. By good luck it is, O thou of mighty arms that Dhritarashtra today begs wealth of us, he who was formerly begged by us. Behold the reverse brought about by Time. That king who was before the lord and protector of the whole Earth, now desires to go into the woods, his kinsmen and associates all slain by foes. O chief of men, let not thy views deviate from granting the permission asked for. O mighty-armed one, refusal, besides bringing infamy, will be productive d demerit. Do thou learn your duty in this matter from the king, thy eldest brother, who is lord of all. It becometh thee to give instead of refusing, O chief of Bharata’s race. Vibhatsu who was saying so wag applauded by king Yudhishthira the just. Yielding to wrath, Bhimasena said these words, ‘O Phalguna, it is we that shall make gifts in the matter of Bhishma’s obsequies, as also of king Somadatta and of Bhurisravas, of the royal sage Valhika, and of the high-souled Drona, and of all others. Our mother Kunti shall make such obsequial offerings for Karna. O foremost of men, let not Dhritarashtra perform those Sraddhas. Even this is what I think. Let not our foes be gladdened. Let Duryodhana and others sink from a miserable to a more miserable position. Alas, it was those wretches of their race that caused the whole Earth to be exterminated. How hast thou been able to forget that anxiety of

    p. 22

    twelve long years, and our residence in deep incognito that was so painful to Draupadi? Where was Dhritarashtra’s affection for us then? Clad in a black deer-skin and divested of all thy ornaments, with the princess of Panchala in thy company, didst thou not follow this king? Where were Bhishma and Drona then, and where was Somadatta? Thou hadst to live for thirteen years in the woods, supporting thyself on the products of the wilderness. Thy eldest father did not then look at thee with eyes of parental affection. Hast thou forgotten, O Partha, that it was this wretch of our race, of wicked understanding, that enquired of Vidura, when the match at dice was going on,–’What has been won?’ Hearing thus far, king Yudhishthira, the son of Kunti, endued with great intelligence, rebuked him and told him to be silent.”‘

    “Arjuna said, ‘O Bhima, thou art my elder brother and, therefore, my senior and preceptor. I dare not say anything more than what I have already said. The royal sage Dhritarashtra deserves to be honoured by us in every respect. They that are good, they that are distinguished above the common level, they that break not the distinctions which characterise the good, remember not the wrongs done to them but only the benefits they have received.’ Hearing these words of the high-souled Phalguna, the righteous-souled Yudhishthira, the son of Kunti, addressed Vidura and said these words, ‘Instructed by me, O Kshattri, do thou say unto the Kuru king that I shall give him as much wealth from my treasury as he wishes to give away for the obsequies of his song, and of Bhishma and others among his well-wishers and benefactors. Let not Bhima be cheerless at this!’

    “Vaisampayana continued, ‘Having said these words, king Yudhishthira the just, highly applauded Arjuna. Meanwhile Bhimasena began to cast angry glances at Dhananjaya. Then Yudhishthira, endued with great intelligence, once more addressed Vidura and said, ‘It behoves not king Dhritarashtra to be angry with Bhimasena. This Bhima of great intelligence was greatly afflicted by cold and rain and heat and by a thousand other griefs while residing in the woods. All this is not unknown to thee. Do thou, however, instructed by me, say unto the king, O foremost one of Bharata’s race, that he may take from my house whatever articles he wishes and in whatever measure also he likes. Thou shalt also tell the king that he should not allow his heart to dwell on this exhibition of pride in which Bhima, deeply afflicted, has indulged. Whatever wealth I have and whatever Arjuna has in his house, the owner thereof is king Dhritarashtra. Even this thou shouldst tell him. Let the king make gifts unto the Brahmanas. Let him spend as largely as he likes. Let him free himself from the debt he owes to his sons and well-wishers. Let him be told

    p. 23

    besides,–O Monarch, this very body of mine is at thy disposal and all the wealth I have. Know this, and let there be no doubt in this.

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  7. Dear smartboy/Dabangg,

    Karna was an atirathi. It is true that he can not be compared him with Duryodhana and his brothers who were no match for Bhima. But Bhima did not fear Karna. If you remember Bhima jumped on Karna’s chariot when his bow was cut down by Karna. Karna concealed himself in chariot and instead of Karna Bhima caught the pole of his standerd. And it was not that Bhima silently beared his insult by Karna. He snatched Karna’s bow and hit it on his head. If Bhima couldn’t kill Karna at that time then Karna too couldn’t kill Bhima. And if we talk about Karna’s promise to Kunti, then according to Bhima also remembered Arjuna’s vow.

    Duryodhana’s brothers were no match for Bhima but some of them like Vikarna, Durjaya etc were good warriors. They gave cover fire to Karna. Karna changed his chariot while Bhima was fighting with Duryodhana’s brothers.

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    • dear anand, i am not saying bhimsen was a nonsense warrior . he too was an atirathi,

      karna killing bhimsen had higher percentage than bhimsen killing karna with his own fists. thats why arjuna shot arrows to drive karna away.

      but how can one hide in his chariot, i couldn’t understand all these years.

      if he was hiding then the best thing would have been to break the chariot ? wasn’t it.

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  8. Dear Smartboy,

    I had asked you to falsify the facts given by me, but instead you started to give EXCUSES for Drona/Karna/Bhishma not doing any Rajsuya Yagya or Ashwamedh Yagya or spreadig their kingdoms…..

    Your statement-”Did arjuna spread his Kingdom. No… Did bhimsen spread his kingdom .NO…. Did karna spread his kingdom. NO”

    My ans- Very funny question & answers…. Arjun & Bhima indeed spread their kingdom(Indraprasth) during Rajsuya Yagya/Ashwamedh Yagya….. But Karna/Drona/Bhishma didnt…..

    Your statement-”now this is a mockery of MB. Krishna killed all the allies of Jarashandha one by one. Which forced jarashandha to make friendship with Karna.”

    My ans- What Mockery ?? Let me give you the facts from KMG:

    Here are the passages from Vyas MB in which Krishna was explaining to Yudi about the powers of Jarasandh when Pandavas thought of performing Rajsuya Yagya….

    Here in this paragraph Krishna clearly accepted that He & Balaram ran away from Mathura due to the fear of Jarasandh……

    “Then the widow of Hansa and the daugater of Jasarandha, that handsome woman with eyes like lotus- petals, grieved at the death of her lord, went unto her father, and re-peatedly urged, O monarch, the king of Magadha, saying, O slayer of all foes, kill thou the slayer of my husband. THEN, O GREAT KING, REMEMBERING THE CONCLUSION TO WHICH WE HAD COME OF OLD WE BECAME EXCEEDINGLY CHEERLESS AND FLED FROM MATHURA. DIVIDING OUR LARGE WEALTH INTO SMALL PORTIONS SO AS TO MAKE EACH PORTION EASILY PORTABLE, WE FLED FROM “”””FEAR””””” OF JARASANDHA, WITH OUR COUSINS AND RELATIVES. REFLECTING UPON EVERYTHING, WE FLED TOWARDS THE WEST. There is a delightful town towards the west called Kusathali, adorned by the mountains of Raivata. In that city, O monarch, we took up our abode. AND, O TIGER OF THE KURU RACE, CONSIDERING THE INACCESSIBILITY OF THAT FIRST OF MOUNTAINS AND REGARDING THEMSELVES AS HAVING ALREADY CROSSED THE “””””FEAR”””” OF JARASANDHA, THE DESCENDANTS OF MADHU HAVE BECOME EXCEEDINGLY GLAD. THUS, O KING, THOUGH POSSESSED OF STRENGTH AND ENERGY, YET FROM THE OPPRESSIONS OF JARASANDHA WE HAVE BEEN OBLIGED TO REPAIR TO THE MOUNTAINS OF GOMANTA, MEASURING THREE YOJANAS IN LENGTH. WE ALSO, O KING, FROM “””””FEAR””””” OF JARASANDHA, AT ONE TIME HAD TO LEAVE MATHURA AND FLY TO THE CITY OF DWARAVATI.”
    ———————————

    These lines clearly show the ordinary strengths & cowardness of Krishna/Balaram …..

    I would have accepted Krishna/Balaram as mighty warriors if they had killed Jarasandh by themselves without depending on Pandavas….. Krishna had the option of taking Balaram with him to challenge Jarasandh for a wrestling match, but he couldnt dare to do so…..

    Your statement-”Your version would have been acceptable if Pandavas defeated the united force of Kalyavan, Narakashura,Salva, Paundrak Vasudeva.”

    My ans- In Viraat war, a lone Arjun defeated a whole kuru army which comprised of Bhishma, Drona, Karna, Ashwatthama, Kripa, Duryo, Dusshashan etc…. So do you want to say that the combined strength of Kalyavan, Narakashura,Salva, Paundrak Vasudeva etc was more than that of Kuru army ??

    Your statement-”did bhisma accompany karna during vijay yatra. No”

    My ans- Yes, that is the point….. Duryo’s desire to spread his kingdom was proved by his Vaishnava Yagya for which he sent Karna… but Duryo(or Dhritrashtra) didnt send Bhishma for any conquest… Why ?? Because they knew the incompetancy of Bhishma…..

    Your statement-”Secondly yagna and puja cannot performed according to one’s discretion . it is matter of faith and rituals. yagna is done to please gods. That’s the only purpose.”

    My ans- Very hypothetical claim…. Rajsuya Yagya/Ashwamedh Yagya/Vaishnav Yagyas etc were not ordinary Yagyas which people used to perform at any auspicious occasion(Just like we do Satnarayan Pooja or Gruh-Shanti pooja etc)…..

    Rajsuya Yagya/Ashwamedh Yagya/Vaishnav Yagyas etc were special Yagyas of MB/Ramayan times which were performed by Royal people only for their military benefits & which had specific purposes & significans…..

    Your statement-”but one thing I want to tell you BHARAT was not inferior to any of Bhsima, arjuna karna, bhim.”

    My ans- Offcourse King Bharat was inferior to Pandavas, because Bharat could not ever win whole India or could perform Ashwamedh Yagya…. Yes indeed Bharat was superior to Bhishma, Karna & Duryo…. because these people could not spread their kingdoms, but King Bharat did…..

    King Bharat performing 1000 Ashwamedh Yagyas is an absolutely rubbish claim & an interpolation, because Kurus were the descendants of King Bharat, & Bharat’s kingdom was not larger than Hastinapur of MB times…. Had Bharat perfromed any Ashwamedh Yagya, then he should have ruled over whole India & so the kuru decendants(including Dhritrashtra) should have ruled over whole India…….

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    • first going by logic , arjuna award is given becs arjuna was the best warrior,

      drona award is given becs drona was the guru who made arjuna.

      similarly our country is call BHARAT, since BHARAT was the best of rulers. now don’t act ignorant we all know how mighty was Bharat.

      as kid he used tie up lions etc together . he became so famous that the king wanted to know the identity of this guy.

      Bharat ruled whole of India,

      according to you the thing which you cant understand is false right.

      that means a chemical equation which you cant memorize or understand is nonsense. this is your rule of life.

      can you do any Puja according to your liking ? or according to your rituals?

      why Yagna is done? most important thing.

      right to please gods. thats why rakshasas never perform yagnas which glorifies god, like aswamedha or rajasuya.

      they directly take the shortcut , and ruled over Devas kingdom.

      if establishing supremacy is the only thing than it cannot be done by performing any yagna. military conquest is enough.

      can by performing 1000 yagnas a king can say i have conquered the world?

      so what is the point of doing a yagna than ?

      to remind you ,

      after completion of ashwamedha yagna , why yudi ruled only over Indraprastra and not the whole of India

      did yudi have his throne all over India or he used to command his subordinates based from Indraprastra?

      Arjuna and bhimsen did not spread their kingdom. this is basic fact.

      they fought war for YUDI not for themselves.

      they tried to spread their supremacy not land mass.

      similarly Karna did not spread his own kingdom he tried to spread his master supremacy.

      regarding how incompetency of bhisma lets not discuss this.

      you be happy with you opinion. i don’t have the intention of changing it.

      Bharata (Sanskrit: भरत, Bharata, means “The Cherished”). Bharata[1][2] was an emperor of India, and is referred to in Hindu and Jain theology. He was son of King Dushyanta of Hastinapura and Queen Śakuntalā and thus a descendant of the Lunar Dynasty of the Kshatriya Varna. Bharata had conquered all of Greater India, uniting it into a single political entity which was named after him as “Bhāratavarṣa”.

      According to the Mahabharata as well as the numerous puranas and diverse Indian history, Bharat Empire included the whole territory of the Indian subcontinent, including parts of present day Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan,[3] Turkmenistan, North-west Tibet, Nepal,China,Russia,Japan,Bangladesh and rest of the world.

      This represented as the ideal sample of great empires, which was dominated by harmony, wealth and prosperity.

      There are many references to “Bharata Chakravarti” in the sacred Jain texts.[citation needed] He conquered all of the earth and the worlds above and reached the top of “Meru” or “Sumeru” mountain (the center of the world and tallest mountain) and placed a flag. But upon reaching the top he saw numerous such flags of world conquerors before him. This made him feel very insignificant and he took the diksha and attained nirvana. His successor was his youngest son bhumanyu

      Bhārat (along with India) is the official English name of Republic of India and Bhārata Gaṇarājyam is the official Sanskrit name of the country, while Bhārat Ganarājya is the official Hindi name.

      In Viraat war, a lone Arjun defeated a whole kuru army which comprised of Bhishma, Drona, Karna, Ashwatthama, Kripa, Duryo, Dusshashan etc…. So do you want to say that the combined strength of Kalyavan, Narakashura,Salva, Paundrak Vasudeva etc was more than that of Kuru army ??

      = this would be speculation only, going by the own words of Karna and bhisma , Krishna establishes his supremacy over others by killing Narakashura .

      it was their own words.

      Like this

  9. Dear sachin ,

    Answers to all these questions have been given earlier also.

    Now I am wondering how to answer those in a different way.

    Drona killed drupada, even though he did not want to kill drupada.

    Did arjuna spread his Kingdom. No

    Did bhimsen spread his kingdom .NO

    Did karna spread his kingdom. NO

    your statement =Jarasandh was the strongest king of India before Pandavas’ rise(because of whose’ fear Yadavas ran away from Mathura, gifting Mathura to Jarasandh & hiding inside a strongly built fort of Dwarika far away from Magadh), but just look at the ease with which Pandavas eliminated Jarasandh…

    now this is a mockery of MB.

    Krishna killed all the allies of Jarashandha one by one. Which forced jarashandha to make friendship with Karna.

    Your version would have been acceptable if Pandavas defeated the united force of Kalyavan, Narakashura,Salva, Paundrak Vasudeva.

    Karna too had the opportunity of killing Jarashandha. But he did not .

    did bhisma accompany karna during vijay yatra. No

    did bhisma accompany karna any other time. Yes to steal cattles without a fight .

    Your statement= Karna’s Vaishnav Yagya was creditable, but still Vaishnav Yagya’s siginificance was nowhere near than Rajsuya Yagya & Ashwamedh Yagya, as these Yagyas were more difficult to complete than the Vaishnav Yagya….. ALso, conquests like Vaishnav Yagya, were also performed by kings like Pandu, Bharat etc….

    firstly I have no idea if Pandu or Bharat have done Vaishnav yagna. Secondly yagna and puja cannot performed according to one’s discretion . it is matter of faith and rituals.

    yagna is done to please gods. That’s the only purpose.

    but one thing I want to tell you BHARAT was not inferior to any of Bhsima, arjuna karna, bhim.

    Now, I have a purpose, which do thou truly listen to. Having beheld that foremost of sacrifices, the mighty Rajasuya, performed by the Pandavas, a desire hath sprung up in me (to celebrate the same). Do thou, O Suta’s son, fulfil this desire of mine.’ Thus addressed, Karna spake thus unto the king, ‘Now that all the rulers of the earth have been brought under thy subjection, do thou summon the principal Brahmanas, and, O best of Kurus, duly procure the articles required for the sacrifice. And, O represser of foes, let Ritwijas as prescribed, and versed in the Vedas, celebrate thy rites according to the ordinance, O king. And, O bull of the Bharata race, let thy great sacrifice also, abounding
    p. 504
    in meats and drinks, and grand with parts, commence.’
    “O king, having been thus addressed by Karna, Dhritarashtra’s son summoned the priest, and spake unto him these words, ‘Do thou duly and in proper order celebrate for me that best of sacrifices, the Rajasuya furnished with excellent Dakshinas.’ Thus accosted, that best of Brahmanas spake unto the king, saying, ‘O foremost of the Kauravas, while Yudhishthira is living, that best of sacrifices cannot be performed in thy family, O Prince of kings! Further, O monarch, thy father Dhritarashtra, endued with long life, liveth. For this reason also, O best of kings, this sacrifice cannot be undertaken by thee. THERE IS, O LORD, ANOTHER GREAT SACRIFICE, RESEMBLING THE RAJASUYA. Do thou, O foremost of kings, celebrate that sacrifice. Listen to these words of mine. All these rulers of the earth, who have, O king, become tributary to thee, will pay thee tribute in gold, both pure and impure. Of that gold, do thou, O best of monarchs, now make the (sacrificial) plough, and do thou, O Bharata, plough the sacrificial compound with it. At that spot, let there commence, O foremost of kings, with due rites, and without any disturbance the sacrifice, sanctified with mantras abounding in edibles.
    THE NAME OF THAT SACRIFICE WORTHY OF VIRTUOUS PERSONS, IS VAISHNAVA. NO PERSON SAVE THE ANCIENT VISHNU HATH PERFORMED IT BEFORE.
    This mighty sacrifice vies with that best of sacrifices–the Rajasuya itself. will be fufilled.’

    Dushmanta’s son, Bharata, O Srinjaya, we hear, fell a prey to death. While only a child (living) in the forest, he achieved feats incapable of being achieved by others. Endued with great strength, he speedily deprived the very lions, white as snow and armed with teeth and claws, of all their prowess, and dragged them and bound them (at his pleasure). He used to check tigers also, that were fiercer and more ruthless (than lions), and bring them to subjection. Seizing other beasts of
    p. 131
    prey possessed of great might, and even huge elephants, dyed with red arsenic and spotted with other liquid minerals by their teeth and tusks, he used to bring them to subjection, causing their mouths to become dry, or obliging them to fly away. Possessed of great might, he used also to drag the mightiest of buffaloes. AND IN CONSEQUENCE OF HIS STRENGTH, HE CHECKED PROUD LIONS BY HUNDREDS, AND POWERFUL SRIMARAS AND HORNED RHINOCEROSES AND OTHER ANIMALS. BINDING THEM BY THEIR NECKS AND CRUSHING THEM TO AN INCH OF THEIR LIVES, HE USED TO LET THEM GO. FOR THOSE FEATS OF HIS THE REGENERATE ASCETICS (WITH WHOM HE LIVED) CAME TO CALL HIM SARVADAMANA(THE CONTROLLER OF ALL). HIS MOTHER, AT LAST, FORBADE HIM FROM TORTURING ANIMALS IN THAT WAY. Endued with great prowess he performed a hundred Horse-sacrifices on the banks of the Yamuna, three hundred such sacrifices on the banks of Saraswati, and four hundred on the banks of the Ganga. Having performed these sacrifices, he once more performed a thousand Horse-sacrifices and a hundred Rajasuyas, great sacrifices, in which his gifts also to the Brahmanas were very profuse.

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  10. Dear Smartboy/Sanjay/Niraj,

    I dont know why you people keep on falsely accusing me for giving my own opinions or speculations about MB ?? I always talk on the basis of facts of MB…. Now regarding my last post, on which you all shouted foul play of putting speculations, let me quote you my same post again & let us see how many facts were there in my post:

    Fact no.1:
    Out of all the numerous kingdoms of India, only Pandavas won whole India twice(Rajsuya Yagya & Ashwamedh Yagya) & ruled over whole India for many years….. This proves that Pandavas had something special abilities in them which other kings lacked…..
    —————————————-

    Fact no.2:
    Khandavaprasth was a small kingdom & had a small army which Pandavas got after Division, but still Pandavas subjugated whole India within few years of estabilishing their Kingdom… & Yudi became the Samraat….
    —————————————-

    Fact no.3:
    After the Dyuta & Forest exile, Pandavas were virtually beggers & had nothing with them, still they won the whole India ultimately…. This fact itself speaks volumes about the capabilities of Pandavas…..
    —————————————–

    Fact no.4:
    In MB war, Pandavas had the smaller army, still they won the MB war & dominated this war on most of the days…..
    ——————————————

    Fact no.5:
    Pandavas never tasted defeat in any war in which they participated…. This also speaks volumes about the invincibility of Pandavas…..
    ——————————————

    On the contrary, just look at Kauravas:

    Fact no.6:Bhishma, even though he reached upto Great-Grandfathers age, & even after having a large Kingdom & large army under him, still he never dared to perform a Rajsuya Yagya or Ashwamedh Yagya….. Forget about Rajsuya Yagya or Ashwamedh Yagya, Bhishma couldnt spread his kingdom any further…… Instead, his own Hastinapur boundaries were captured by Gandharvas & Nagas… & Bhishma’s king Chitrangad got killed by an external king, which was a shame on the part of Bhishma capabilities…….
    ——————————————

    Fact no.7:
    Duryodhan, even though he had the support of warriors like Bhishma, Drona, Karna etc, still he faced many humiliating defeats all thoughout his life…..
    ——————————————

    Fact no.8:
    Karna’s Vaishnav Yagya was creditable, but still Vaishnav Yagya’s siginificance was nowhere near than Rajsuya Yagya & Ashwamedh Yagya, as these Yagyas were more difficult to complete than the Vaishnav Yagya….. ALso, conquests like Vaishnav Yagya, were also performed by kings like Pandu, Bharat etc…..
    ——————————————

    Fact no.9:
    Karna never his kingdom & he remained as a subordinate king to Duryo all his life & followed every order of Duryo….
    ——————————————

    Fact no.10:
    Drona could not take his revenge with Drupad on his own abilities, so he came to take the help of Hastinapur & Pandavas did the job for him…. ALso, Drona owned half the kingdom of Drupad(which was won by Pandavas only), still Drona could not spread his kongdom & instead he continued his subordination towards Hastinapur…..
    ——————————————

    Fact no.11:
    Jarasandh was the strongest king of India before Pandavas’ rise(because of whose’ fear Yadavas ran away from Mathura, gifting Mathura to Jarasandh & hiding inside a strongly built fort of Dwarika far away from Magadh), but just look at the ease with which Pandavas eliminated Jarasandh……
    ——————————————

    So all these example clearly points towards the extraordinary capabilities of Pandavas & the limited capabilities of Kauravas…..

    Now, i dare all you people to falsify the above facts & prove them as speculatons only…..

    Like this

    • Fact no.9:
      Karna never spread his kingdom & he remained as a subordinate king to Duryo all his life & followed every order of Duryo….

      Like this

    • Dear Sachin,

      There is no question on Pandavas abilities but you are questioning abilities of other characters by unnecessarily inserting your expectation from them.

      Your Fact no.1:
      Out of all the numerous kingdoms of India, only Pandavas won whole India twice(Rajsuya Yagya & Ashwamedh Yagya) & ruled over whole India for many years….. This proves that Pandavas had something special abilities in them which other kings lacked…..

      My answer – I had explained difference between the objectivity and circumstances for performing both the yagas. In technical terms Rajsuya yaga was hafta-vasooli and Ashwamedha yaga was the conquest to rule over. The former one was done by Pandavas with force, alliances and support. The later was done when there was hardly any opposition and new world order was to be established. Ashwamedha Yagas of Rama and Yudi happened after their decisive wars support this fact.
      —————————————-
      Your Fact no.2:
      Khandavaprasth was a small kingdom & had a small army which Pandavas got after Division, but still Pandavas subjugated whole India within few years of estabilishing their Kingdom… & Yudi became the Samraat….

      My answer – Yes they could hafta-vasool from whosoever agreed to that. The agreement was brought through combination of force, alliances and support. However, you are seeing this only on the force front. You are also seeing this by ignoring Krishna’s help in mentoring Pandavas in killing of Jarasandha. Hastinapur, Dwarika, Panchal, Kashi and Madra also supported their hafta-vasooli without any war. These are also facts from MB.
      —————————————-
      Your Fact no.3:
      After the Dyuta & Forest exile, Pandavas were virtually beggers & had nothing with them, still they won the whole India ultimately…. This fact itself speaks volumes about the capabilities of Pandavas…..

      My answer – After dyuta & forest exile they did win everything but with the help of 7 akshauhini armies and not alone. This fact from MB is also being ignored by you.
      —————————————–
      Your Fact no.4:
      In MB war, Pandavas had the smaller army, still they won the MB war & dominated this war on most of the days…..
      My answer – Agreed they won in the last. This is why they are celebrated but it also involved tempting offers to Karna, making him emotionally vulnerable, geeta updesh, sacrifice of Ghatotkach, controversial killings of Bhishma, Drona and Karna which are also facts from MB.
      ——————————————
      Your Fact no.5:
      Pandavas never tasted defeat in any war in which they participated…. This also speaks volumes about the invincibility of Pandavas…..

      My answer – Fully agree with you but who has questioned that?
      ——————————————
      On the contrary, just look at your opinions on other characters (Kauravas):

      You EXPECT Bhishma, Drona and Karna to perform yagas and expand so-called THEIR kingdoms makes it your opinion and not fact from MB. Their qualification and intent of doing so were explained in my last post. You framed your opinions on speculating that Gandharava killing Chitragandha SHOULD HAVE BEEN avenged, Gandharavas and Nagas MIGHT HAVE captured Hastinapur land etc…..even without mention or any such reasons in MB. But you insist on calling them facts from MB.
      Duryo got defeated on many occasions was never refuted by anyone. Inspite of being mighty powerful and under the protégé of Krishna (master politician) Pandavas and their wife had to face humiliation & exile. So does that make Krishna as incapable who could not save them from all their misfortunes? Can he be also blamed for dyut played by Yudi?
      I had asked you what was the need of collecting charity for a yaga by force? If the force was involved to accomplish this then Vaishnava yaga also becomes quite significant from the ability point of view. In fact Yudi was still undisputed Samrat when this yaga was performed by Karna. Karna did not ask for any approval or permission from Samrat to do so. In the light of this fact from MB superiority of Rajsuya yaga and that might of being Samrat does not make any sense. On the contrary it questions the ability of Yudi as Samrat who let this happen without any of his say.

      What was Pandavas enmity with Jarasandha? He was killed because Krishna took them to Jarasandha to get him killed and that too under some disguise (fact from MB). Does MB say that one fine day Yudi asked Arjun and Bheema to kill Jarasandh so that it becomes fact? This was done so that the major opponent of Pandavas is no more and their hafta-vasooli could get materialized once their brand image gets a boost by this killing. Pandavas could rise only after the demise of Jarasandha and not before that. So in my opinion Jarasandha was more powerful than Pandavas. If not then why Rajsuya yaga could start only after his killing? Allow my imagination to run wild – what if Krishna had already killed Jarasandha would Pandavas be considered mighty enough to perform Rajsuya yaga? Never so in a way Krishna made this happen to their advantage is also the point you are ignoring. If Jarasandh could not do any harm to Yadavas in his umpteen attacks how could he be considered better than Yadavas?

      Your statement – “So all these example clearly points towards the extraordinary capabilities of Pandavas & the limited capabilities of Kauravas…..Now, i dare all you people to falsify the above facts & prove them as speculatons only…..”

      My answer – Pandavas were capable so were others. It is just that circumstances and intent on both sides were different. You are counting the success stories of Pandavas and failures of others but ignoring the process in both cases. For the same match Sunil Gavaskar and Ajay Jadeja may give different views but they cannot change what has happened. THAT HAPPENING IS CALLED FACT and we are either SG or AJ.

      Like this

  11. Then the heroic Shalya, excited with wrath in that battle, hurled a lance at the broad chest of Bhima and uttered a loud shout. That lance, piercing through the armour of Pandu’s son, presented into his body. Vrikodara, however, fearlessly plucking out the weapon, pierced therewith the driver of Shalya in the chest. His vitals pierced, the driver, vomiting blood, fell down with agitated heart. At this, the ruler of the Madras came down from his car and cheerlessly gazed at Bhima. Beholding his own feat thus counteracted, Shalya became filled with wonder. Of tranquil soul, the ruler of the Madras took up his mace and began to cast his glances upon his foe. Beholding that terrible feat of his in battle, the Parthas, with cheerful hearts, worshipped Bhima who was incapable of being tired with exertion.’”

    ‘Seeing his driver fallen, Shalya, O king, quickly took up his mace made wholly of iron and stood immovable as a bull. Bhima, however, armed with his mighty mace, rushed impetuously towards Shalya who then looked like the blazing Yuga-fire, or the Destroyer armed with the noose, or the Kailasa mountain with its formidable crest, or Vasava with his thunder, or Mahadeva with his trident, or an infuriate elephant in the forest. At that time the blare of thousands of conchs and trumpets and loud leonine roars arose there, enhancing the delight of heroes. The combatants of both armies, looking at those two foremost of warriors from every side, applauded them both, saying, “Excellent, Excellent! Save the ruler of the Madras, or Rama, that delighter of the Yadus, there is none else that can venture to endure the impetuosity of Bhima in battle. Similarly, save Bhima, there is no other warrior that can venture to endure the force of the mace of the illustrious king of the Madras in battle.” Those two combatants then, Vrikodara and the ruler of the Madras, roaring like bulls, careered in circles, frequently jumping up in the air. In that encounter between those two lions among men, no difference could be noticed between them either in respect of their careering in circles or of their wielding the mace. The mace of Shalya, wrapped round with a resplendent cloth of gold that looked like a sheet of fire, inspired the spectators with dread. Similarly, the mace of the high-souled Bhima, as the latter careered in circles, looked like lightning in the midst of the clouds. Struck by the ruler of the Madras with his mace, the mace of Bhima, O king, produced sparks of fire in the welkin which thereupon seemed to be ablaze. Similarly, struck by Bhima with his mace, the mace of Shalya produced a shower of blazing coals which seemed exceedingly wonderful. Like two gigantic elephants striking each other with their tusks, or two huge bulls striking each other with their horns, those two heroes began to strike each other with their foremost of maces, like a couple of combatants striking each other with iron bound clubs. Their limbs being struck with each other’s mace, they soon became bathed in blood and looked handsomer in consequence like two flowering Kinsukas. Struck by the ruler of the Madras on both his left and right, the mighty-armed Bhimasena stood immovable like a mountain. Similarly, though struck repeatedly with the force of Bhima’s mace, Shalya, O king, moved not, like a mountain assailed by an elephant with his tusks. The noise made by the blows of the maces of those two lions among men was heard on all sides like successive peals of thunder. Having ceased for a moment, those two warriors of great energy once more began, with uplifted maces, to career in closer circles. Once more the clash took place between those two warriors of superhuman feats, each having advanced towards the other by eight steps, and each assailing the other with his uplifted iron club. Then, wishing to get at each other, they once more careered in circles. Both accomplished (in the use of the mace) they began to display their superiority of skill. Uplifting their terrible weapons, they then again struck each other like mountains striking each other with their crests at the time of an earthquake. Exceedingly crushed with each other’s mace in consequence of each other’s strength, both those heroes fell down at the same time like a couple of poles set up for Indra’s worship. The brave combatants then of both armies, at that sight, uttered cries of “Oh!” and “Alas!” Struck with great force in their vital limbs, both of them had become exceedingly agitated. Then the mighty Kripa, taking up Shalya, that bull among the Madras, on his own car, quickly bore him away from the field of battle. Within, however, the twinkling of an eye, Bhimasena, rising up, and still reeling as if drunk, challenged, with uplifted mace, the ruler of the Madras.

    shalya too was strong man, he encountered bhimsen twice with mace both the time shalya and bhimsen became unconscious and both the time shalya was carried away while bhimsen regain consciousness quickly.

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  12. that is what i am asking Dabangg Bhai, Bhimsen was very close to karna’s chariot he could have thrashed Karna’ chariot with his bare hand also. instead of running?

    guys i think Jarashandha defeat against yadavas 18 times was made up story. i think Jarashandha was wrong in assessing the abilities of Yadavas at first. he got defeated by them. may he was granted life by Balarama also.

    Karna too spared him. although he was great warrior but his main strength was his huge army.

    it took him time to gather such huge support, probably he was reluctant to approach any king since it was humiliation that he lost against some teenagers.

    now the time Jarashandha took to gather the army, was sufficient for yadavas to build a safe place at dwarika.

    Now 23 Akshohini sena may be exaggerated , but still some huge army gather from all directions to fight yadavas.

    Krishna and Balrama acted dead. Jarashandha had no animosity with civilian so he left them.

    Krishna one by one started eliminating all the supports of Jarashandha, Kalyavana, Praundraka Vasudeva,
    Narakashura, Banashura, RUKMA to an extent..

    as such Jarashandha was left with no allies, he made friendship with Karna. and won may kingdoms.

    if he was himself competent than he should never have needed so may allies.

    he was trying to please Shiva, but got killed by bhimsen.

    he never attacked Hastinapura as Hastinapura also had allies in panchalas, Madrakas, and some more kingdoms.

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    • i read a story that Jarashandha got a special mace , as long as he fought with that mace he was invincible. in frustration he hurl that mace to dwarika , but was deflected by Balrama Hal that time.

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  13. total misconception that bhimsen was fighting alone against Karna, he had his support of his division which consited many rathis , elephants, divisons. karna also had the support of his divison.

    on funny part of MB is that karna every time manages to escape even with a broken chariot, but why others couldn’t do is amazing.

    was it special quality of Karna. i am not cracking joke.

    did he know exactly when to retreat . when to attack .

    anand bhai , i enjoying the MB more now becs few days back i have changed my attitude towards MB.

    instead of supporting only Karna i now trying to read the whole of MB. i donot know how much i will succeed in the attempt.

    its a total misconception that bhimsen was no good in archery. if he was no good than how he can conduct his military campaign . how he can match aswttahama in pure archery.

    i don’t know the worth of those mighty weapons. in pure archery bhimsen was as good as anyone..

    may be he was touch inferior to the prominent archers but he could make up for those deficit with his great strength.

    Similaly krishna for you is just a diplomat.

    but if he was just a diplomat , hw he can kill ekalvya, how he can kill Salva( remember it was krishna who killed salva and not satyaki.

    how he can humiliate Rukma, who sometimes was addressed as Atirathi .

    How he can defeat Agnidev against whom Nakula or Sahadeva was helpless.

    how he can defeat Varundev.

    guys read this , in pure archery even dhristtadyumna regarded abhimanyu to be superior to arjuna.

    now it may not be true, but such comparison or praise is there only when the fighters are very close in abilities.

    now who survives in a war is destiny, ghatokacha was better or Bhimsen we cannot say with confidence.

    but bhimsen survived the war.

    . And he pitted

    p. 322

    [paragraph continues] Arjuna against the Suta’s son (Karna), Bhima against Duryodhana, Dhrishtaketu against Salya, Uttamaujas against Gautama’s son (Kripa), Nakula against Kritavarman, Yuyudhana against the ruler of the Sindhus (Jayadratha). And he placed Sikhandin in the van, pitting him against Bhishma. And he urged Sahadeva against Sakuni, and Chekitana against Sala, and the five sons of Draupadi against the Trigartas. And he urged Subhadra’s son (Abhimanyu) against Vrishasena (the son of Karna), and also against all the rest of the kings, for he regarded Abhimanyu as superior to Arjuna himself in battle.

    And distributing his warriors thus, individually and collectively, that mighty bowman, of the hue of blazing fire, kept Drona for his own share. And that leader of leaders of troops, the mighty and intelligent bowman Dhrishtadyumna, having arrayed his troops duly, waited for battle with a firm heart. And having arrayed the combatants, as indicated above, of the Pandavas, he waited, with collected mind, on the field for securing victory to the sons of Pandu.’”

    now coming to bhimsen and karna fight,

    may i know why bhimsen couldn’t his make his way through karna’s division?

    he did pass through Kritarvarma’s and Drona divison. there too he was checked by Kauravas, he killed many kauravas there in the very presence of drona and made his way through.

    he slammed many chariots on his way, crushed many kings with his foot.

    but why can’t he do the same against karna.

    i am not saying karna was winning, but if bhimsen was winning why he had to fight karna whole the time.

    the time when karna changed chariots , bhimsen should have move forward. that much time was sufficient or not? if not that karna was jumping to a new chariot instantly.

    THEN, O BULL OF BHARATA’S RACE, THE MIGHTY-ARMED BHIMA, WITH A COUPLE OF RAZOR-FACED ARROWS, CUT OFF THE STANDARD OF KARNA. AND THEN HE SLEW, WITH A NUMBER OF SHAFTS HIS ENEMY’S CHARIOTEER. ABANDONING THAT STEEDLESS AND DRIVERLESS AND STANDARDLESS CAR, KARNA. O BHARATA, CHEERLESSLY STOOD ON THE EARTH, DRAWING HIS BOW. THE PROWESS THAT WE THEN BEHELD OF RADHA’S SON WAS EXTREMELY WONDERFUL, INASMUCH AS THAT FOREMOST OF CAR-WARRIORS, THOUGH DEPRIVED OF CAR, CONTINUED TO RESIST HIS FOE.

    Guys read this , this what I am saying karna was not giving a opening to bhimsen.

    Beholding that foremost of men, viz., the son of Adhiratha, deprived of his car, Duryodhana, O monarch, said unto (his brother) Durmukha, ‘There, O Durmukha, the son of Radha hath been deprived of his car by Bhimasena. Furnish that foremost of men, that mighty car-warrior with a car.’ Hearing these words of Duryodhana, thy son Durmukha, O Bharata, quickly proceeded towards Karna and covered Bhima with his shafts. Beholding Durmukha desirous of supporting the Suta’s son in that battle, the son of the Wind god was filled with delight and began to lick the corners of his mouth.

    THEN RESISTING KARNA THE WHILE WITH HIS SHAFTS, THE SON OF PANDU QUICKLY DROVE HIS CAR TOWARDS DURMUKHA. AND IN THAT MOMENT, O KING, WITH NINE STRAIGHT ARROWS OF KEEN POINTS, BHIMA DESPATCHED DURMUKHA to Yama’s abode,

    Upon Durmukha’s slaughter, the son of Adhiratha mounted upon the car of that prince and looked resplendent,

    ANAND BHAI, HOW MUCH PROTECTION DID DURMUKHA OFFERED TO KARNA?

    O king, like the blazing sun. Beholding Durmukha lying prostrate on the field, his very vital pierced (with shafts) and his body bathed in blood,

    KARNA WITH TEARFUL EYES ABSTAINED FOR A MOMENT FROM THE FIGHT. CIRCUMAMBULATING THE FALLEN PRINCE AND LEAVING HIM THERE, THE HEROIC KARNA BEGAN TO BREATHE LONG AND HOT BREATHS AND KNEW NOT WHAT TO DO. SEIZING THAT OPPORTUNITY, O KING, BHIMASENA SHOT AT THE SUTA’S SON FOUR AND TEN LONG SHAFTS EQUIPPED WITH VULTURINE FEATHERS. THOSE BLOOD-DRINKING SHAFTS OF GOLDEN WINGS, ENDUED WITH GREAT
    P. 287
    FORCE ILLUMINATING THE TEN POINTS AS THEY COURSED THROUGH THE WELKIN, PIERCED THE ARMOUR OF THE SUTA’S SON, AND DRANK HIS LIFE-BLOOD,

    O king, and passing through his body, sank into the earth and looked resplendent like angry snakes, O monarch, urged on by Death himself, with half their bodies inserted within their holes.

    GUYS READ THIS BHIMSEN WAS PIERCING KARNA EVEN WHEN KARNA WAS SHEDDING TEARS. IT VOLUME ABOUT KARNA’ PHYSICAL STRENGTH ALSO.

    Bhima began to shed copious streams of blood, like a mountain ejecting streams of water. Then Bhima pierced the Suta’s son in return with three shafts endued with the impetuosity of Garuda and he pierced the latter’s charioteer also with seven. Then, O king, Karna thus afflicted by Bhima’s might, became exceedingly distressed. And that illustrious warrior then fled, forsaking the battle, borne away by his fleet steeds. The Atiratha Bhimasena, however, drawing his bow adorned with gold, stayed in battle, looking resplendent like a blazing fire.’

    HERE KARNA FLED FROM THE BATTLE, IT SHOULD BE ENOUGH TIME FOR BHIMSEN TO MAKE HIS WAY TO ARJUNA.

    WITHOUT DOUBT, REFLECTING UPON WHAT THE ANGRY AND FIERCE BHIMA HAD SAID IN THE ASSEMBLY IN THE HEARING OF THE KURUS ABOUT THE SLAUGHTER OF MY SONS, AND BEHOLDING THE DEFEAT OF KARNA, DUHSASANA AND HIS BROTHERS CEASED TO ENCOUNTER BHIMA FROM FEAR.

    guys again read this nobody was stopping bhimsen that time also, no resistance to bhimsen.

    but still he was not able to make his way.

    “Beholding Karna defeated by Bhimasena, five of thy sons, those uterine brothers that were great bowmen, could not, O sire, brook it. They were Durmarshana and Duhsaha and Durmada and Durdhara and Jaya. Clad in beautiful mail, all of them rushed against the son of Pandu. Encompassing
    p. 289
    the mighty-armed Vrikodara, on all sides, they shrouded all the points of the compass with their shafts looking like flights of locusts. Bhimasena, however, in the battle, smilingly received those princes of celestial beauty thus rushing suddenly against him

    ok apologies ,

    kauravas did make their mind to fight bhimsen.

    BEHOLDING THY SONS ADVANCING AGAINST BHIMASENA, RADHA’S SON, KARNA RUSHED AGAINST THAT MIGHTY WARRIOR, SHOOTING ARROWS OF KEEN POINTS THAT WERE EQUIPPED WITH GOLDEN WINGS AND WHETTED ON STONE. BHIMA, HOWEVER, QUICKLY RUSHED AGAINST KARNA, THOUGH RESISTED BY THY SONS. THEN THE KURUS, SURROUNDING KARNA, COVERED BHIMASENA WITH SHOWERS OF STRAIGHT SHAFTS. WITH FIVE AND TWENTY ARROWS, O KING, BHIMA, ARMED WITH HIS FORMIDABLE BOW, DESPATCHED ALL THOSE BULLS AMONG MEN TO YAMA’S ABODE WITH THEIR STEEDS AND CHARIOTEERS. FALLING DOWN FROM THEIR CARS ALONG WITH THEIR CHARIOTEERS, THEIR LIFELESS FORMS LOOKED LIKE LARGE TREES WITH THEIR WEIGHT OF VARIEGATED FLOWERS UPROOTED BY THE TEMPEST. THE PROWESS THAT WE THEN BEHELD OF BHIMASENA WAS EXCEEDINGLY WONDERFUL, INASMUCH AS, RESISTING ADHIRATHA’S SON THE WHILE, HE SLEW THOSE SONS OF THINE. RESISTED BY BHIMA WITH WHETTED ARROWS ON ALL SIDES, THE SUTA’S SON, O KING, ONLY LOOKED AT BHIMA. BHIMASENA ALSO, WITH EYES RED IN WRATH, BEGAN TO CAST ANGRY GLANCES ON KARNA, STRETCHING HIS FORMIDABLE BOW THE WHILE.’”

    what is that before karna could shoot an arrow kauravas were history.

    two more set of kauravas died thereafter,

    it was classic battle . I don’t know why it did not get the importance.

    many were the combatants, o chastiser of foes, in thy host that were deprived of life by arrows, resembling snakes of virulent poison shot from bhima’s bow. strewn with fallen elephants and steeds mixed with the bodies of men, the field of battle looked like one covered with trees broken by a tempest. slaughtered in battle with the arrows from bhima’s bow, thy warriors fled away, ‘saying, what is this?’ INDEED, THAT HOST OF THE SINDHUS, THE SAUVIRAS, AND THE KAURAVAS, AFFLICTED WITH THE IMPETUOUS SHAFTS OF BOTH KARNA AND BHIMA, WAS REMOVED TO A GREAT DISTANCE. THE REMNANT OF THOSE BRAVE SOLDIERS, WITH THEIR STEEDS AND ELEPHANTS KILLED, LEAVING THE VICINITY OF BOTH KARNA AND BHIMA, FLED AWAY IN ALL DIRECTIONS. (AND THEY CRIED OUT), ‘VERILY, FOR THE SAKE OF THE PARTHAS, THE GODS ARE STUPEFYING US, SINCE THOSE ARROWS SHOT BY BOTH BHIMA AND KARNA ARE SLAYING OUR FORCES. SAYING THOSE WORDS, THESE TROOPS OF THINE AFFLICTED WITH FEAR AVOIDING THE RANGE OF (KARNA’S AND BHIMA’S) ARROWS, STOOD AT A DISTANCE FOR WITNESSING THAT COMBAT. THEN, ON THE FIELD OF BATTLE THERE BEGAN TO FLOW A TERRIBLE RIVER ENHANCING THE JOY OF THE HEROES AND THE FEARS OF THE TIMID. AND IT WAS CAUSED BY THE BLOOD OF ELEPHANTS AND STEEDS AND MEN. AND COVERED WITH THE LIFELESS FORMS OF MEN AND ELEPHANTS AND STEEDS, WITH FLAGSTAFFS AND THE BOTTOMS OF CARS, WITH THE ADORNMENTS OF CARS AND ELEPHANTS AND STEEDS WITH BROKEN CARS AND WHEELS AND AKSHAS AND KUVERAS, WITH LOUD-TWANGED BOWS DECKED WITH GOLD, AND GOLD-WINGED ARROWS AND SHAFTS IN THOUSANDS, SHOT BY KARNA AND BHIMA, RESEMBLING SNAKES JUST FREED FROM THEIR SLOUGHS, WITH COUNTLESS LANCES AND SPEARS AND SCIMITARS AND BATTLEAXES, WITH MACES AND CLUBS AND AXES, ALL ADORNED WITH GOLD, WITH STANDARDS OF DIVERSE SHAPES, AND DARTS AND SPIKED CLUBS, AND WITH BEAUTIFUL SATAGHNIS, THE EARTH, O BHARATA, LOOKED RESPLENDENT. AND STREWN ALL OVER WITH EARRINGS AND NECKLACES OF GOLD AND BRACELETS LOOSENED (FROM WRISTS), AND RINGS, AND PRECIOUS GEMS WORN ON DIADEMS AND CROWNS, AND HEAD-GEARS, AND GOLDEN ORNAMENTS OF DIVERSE KINDS, O SIRE, AND COATS OF MAIL, AND LEATHERN FENCES, AND ELEPHANTS’ ROPES, AND UMBRELLAS DISPLACED (FROM THEIR PLACES)

    it was classic encounter between Two atirathis.

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  14. Dristidyumna too got upper hand against Drona on some occasions………..

    Sanjaya said, ‘In that fierce and terrible battle, Dhrishtadyumna, O king, proceeded against Drona. Holding his formidable bow and repeatedly stretching his bowstring, the Panchala prince rushed towards Drona’s car decked with gold. And as Dhrishtadyumna proceeded for accomplishing the destruction of Drona, the Panchalas and the Pandavas, O king, surrounded him. Beholding Drona, that foremost of preceptors, thus assailed, thy son, resolutely contending in battle, protected Drona on all sides. Then those two oceans of troops encountered each other on that night, looked like two terrible oceans lashed into fury by tempest, with all living creatures within them exceedingly agitated. Then the prince of the Panchalas, O king, quickly pierced Drona in the chest with five arrows and uttered a leonine roar. Drona, however, O Bharata, piercing his foe in return with five and twenty arrows in that battle, cut off, with another broad-headed arrow, his bright bow. Forcibly pierced by Drona, O bull of Bharata’s race, Dhrishtadyumna, quickly casting aside his bow, bit his (nether) lip in rage. Indeed, O monarch, the valiant Dhrishtadyumna, excited with wrath, took up another formidable bow for accomplishing the destruction of Drona. That slayer of hostile heroes, that warrior endued with great beauty, stretching that formidable bow to his ear, shot a terrible shaft capable of taking Drona’s life. That shaft, thus sped by the mighty prince in that fierce and dreadful battle, illumined the whole army like the risen sun. Beholding that terrible shaft, the gods, the Gandharvas, and the Danavas. said these words, O king, viz., ‘Prosperity to Drona!’ Karna, however, O king, displaying great lightness of hand cut off into dozen fragments that shaft as it coursed towards the preceptor’s car. Thus cut off into many fragments, O king, that shaft of Dhrishtadyumna, O sire, quickly fell down on the earth like a snake without poison. Having cut off with his own straight shafts those of Dhrishtadyumna in that battle, Karna then pierced Dhrishtadyumna himself with many sharp arrows. And Drona’s son pierced him with five, and Drona himself with five, and Salya pierced him with nine, and Duhsasana with three. And Duryodhana pierced him with twenty arrows and Sakuni with five. Indeed, all those mighty car-warriors quickly pierced the prince of the Panchalas. Thus was he pierced by these seven heroes in that battle exerting themselves for the rescue of Drona. The prince of the Panchalas, however, pierced every one of these heroes with three arrows. Indeed, O king, Dhrishtadyumna, in that dreadful battle, quickly pierced Drona himself, and Karna, and Drona’s son, and thy son. Thus pierced by that bowman, those warriors, fighting together, pierced Dhrishtadyumna again in that encounter, uttering loud roars the while. Then Drumasena, excited with wrath, O king, pierced the Panchala prince with a winged arrow, and once again quickly with three other arrows. And addressing the prince, he said, ‘Wait! Wait!’ Dhrishtadyumna then pierced Drumasena in return with three straight arrows, in the encounter, which were equipped with wings of gold, steeped in oil, and capable of taking the life of him at whom they are sped. With another broad-headed shaft, the prince of the Panchalas then, in that battle, cut off from Drumasena’s trunk the latter’s head decked with bright ear-rings of gold.

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  15. BHIMA FIGHTING AGAINST MANY KURU MAHARATHIS….

    Sanjaya said, “Hearing these words of the high-souled Drona, Bhagadatta and Kripa and Salya and Kritavarman, and Vinda and Anuvinda of Avanti, and Jayadratha the ruler of the Sindhus, and Chitrasena and Vikarna and Durmarshana and others, these ten warriors of thy army, supported by a large host consisting of many nationalities, fought with Bhimasena, desirous of winning high renown in the battle for Bhishma’s sake. And Salya struck Bhima with nine arrows, and Kritavarman struck him with three, and Kripa with nine. And Chitrasena and Vikarna and Bhagadatta, O sire, each struck him with ten arrows. And the ruler of the Sindhus struck him with three, and Vinda and Anuvinda of Avanti each struck him with five arrows. And Duryodhana struck that son of Pandu with twenty sharp arrows. Bhimasena, O king, pierced in return every one of those kings, those foremost of men in the world, those mighty car-warriors of the Dhartarashtra army, one after another. The brave Pandava, that slayer of hostile heroes, pierced Salya with seven arrows, and Kritavarman with eight. And he cut off Kripa’s bow with arrow fixed thereon, O Bharata, in the middle, dividing it in twain. And after thus cutting off his bow, he pierced Kripa once more with seven arrows. And he struck Vinda and Anuvinda with three arrows each. And he pierced Durmarshana with twenty arrows, and Chitrasena with five, and Vikarna with ten, and Jayadratha with five. And once more striking the ruler of the Sindhus with three arrows, he uttered a loud shout, filled with joy. Then Gautama, that foremost of car-warriors, taking up another bow, angrily pierced Bhima with ten sharp shafts. Pierced with those ten shafts like a huge elephant with the hook, the valiant Bhimasena, O king, filled with wrath, struck Gautama in that battle with many shafts. Possessed of the splendour of Yama himself, as he appears at the end of the Yuga, Bhimasena then, with three arrows, despatched unto Death’s domain the steeds of the ruler of the Sindhus as also his charioteer. Thereupon that mighty car-warrior, (viz., Jayadratha), quickly jumping down from that car whose steeds had been slain, shot in that battle many sharp-pointed shafts at Bhimasena. Then, O sire, with a couple of broad-headed arrows, he cut off, O chief of the Bharatas, the bow of the high-souled king of the Sindhus in the middle. His bow cut off, himself deprived of car, his steeds and charioteer slain, Jayadratha then, O king, quickly mounted on the car of Chitrasena. Indeed, the son of Pandu achieved in that battle a most wonderful feat, for piercing all those mighty car-warriors and holding them in check, he deprived, O sire, the ruler of the Sindhus of his car in the very sight of all the army. Salya could not brook to see the prowess that Bhimasena displayed, for saying unto him,–Wait, Wait,–he aimed some sharp arrows well-polished by the forger’s hands, and pierced Bhima therewith in that battle. And Kripa and Kritavarman and the valiant Bhagadatta, and Vinda and Anuvinda of Avanti, and Chitrasena, and Durmarshana, and Vikarna, and the valiant ruler of the Sindhus also, in that battle,–These chastisers of foes, all quickly pierced Bhima for the sake of Salya. Bhima then pierced each of them in return with five arrows. And he pierced Salya then with seventy arrows and once more with ten. And Salya then pierced him with nine arrows and once more with five. And he pierced Bhimasena’s charioteer also, deep in his vitals, with a broad-headed arrow. The valiant Bhimasena then, beholding his charioteer Visoka deeply pierced, sped three arrows at the arms and chest of the ruler of Madras. And as regards the other great bowmen, he pierced each of them in that battle With three straight arrows, and then uttered a loud roar like that of a lion. Each of those great bowmen then, exerting himself with vigour, deeply Pierced that son of Pandu skilled in battle, with three arrows in his vitals. That mighty bowman viz., Bhimasena, though pierced deeply, trembled not (but stood still) like a mountain drenched with torrents of rain by showering clouds. Then that mighty car-warrior of the Pandavas, filled with wrath, that celebrated hero, deeply, pierced the ruler of the Madras with three arrows. And he pierced the ruler of the Pragjyotishas, O king, in that battle, with a hundred arrows. Of great renown, he then pierced Kripa with many arrows, and then, displaying great dexterity, he cut off with a keen-edged shaft the bow, with arrow fixed thereon, of the high-souled Kritavarman. Then Kritavarman, that scorcher of foes, taking up another bow, struck Vrikodara between his eyebrows with a long arrow. Bhima, however, in that battle, having pierced Salya with nine arrows made wholly of iron, and Bhagadatta with three, and Kritavarman with eight, pierced each of the others with Gautama at their head, with two arrows. Those warriors also, in return, pierced him, O king, with sharp-pointed shafts. Though thus afflicted by those mighty car-warriors with all kinds of weapons, yet, regarding them all as straw, he coursed on the field without any anxiety. Those foremost of car-warriors (on the other hand), with great coolness, sped at Bhima sharp-pointed arrows by hundreds and thousands. The heroic and mighty Bhagadatta then, in that battle, hurled at him a dart of fierce impetuosity furnished with a golden staff. And the Sindhu king, of strong arms, hurled at him a lance and an axe. And Kripa, O king, hurled at him a Sataghni, and Salya an arrow. And the other great bowmen each sped at him five arrows with great force. The son of the Wind-god then cut off, with a sharp shaft, that lance in twain. And he cut off that axe also with three shafts, as if it were a sesame stalk. And with five shafts winged with the feathers of the Kanka bird, he cut that Sataghni into fragments. That mighty car-warrior then, having cut off the arrow sped by the ruler of the Madras, forcibly cut off the dart sped by Bhagadatta in that battle. As regards the other fierce shafts, Bhimasena, proud of his feats in battle, cut them each into three fragments by means of his own straight shafts. And he struck each of those great bowmen also with three shafts.

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  16. Kritaverma vanquished by Dristidyumna………

    Encompassing the mighty Dhrishtadyumna, Kritavarma cheerfully addressed him saying, “Wait, Wait!” The encounter then that took place between the Vrishni and the Pancala warriors in that battle became exceedingly fierce, like that between two hawks, O king, for a piece of meat. Filled with rage, Dhrishtadyumna, in that battle, struck the son of Hridika (Kritavarma, the ruler of Bhoja) with nine arrows in the chest, and succeeded in afflicting him greatly. Then Kritavarma, thus deeply struck by Prishata’s son in that encounter, covered his assailant, his steeds, and his car with his shafts. Thus shrouded, O king, along with his car, Dhrishtadyumna became invisible, like the Sun shrouded by rain-charged clouds. Baffling all those shafts decked with gold, Dhrishtadyumna, O king, looked resplendent in that battle in his wounds. The commander of the Pandava forces, viz., the son of Prishata, then, filled with rage, approached Kritavarma and poured upon him a fierce shower of arrows. The son of Hridika, however, in that battle, with many thousands of his own arrows, destroyed that fierce arrowy shower coursing towards him with great impetuosity. Beholding his irresistible shower of arrows checked in that battle by Kritavarma, the son of Prishata, approaching his antagonist, began to resist him. And soon he despatched Kritavarma’s driver to Yama’s abode with a broad-headed arrow of great sharpness. Deprived of life, the driver fell down from the car. The mighty Dhrishtadyumna, having vanquished his mighty antagonist, began then to resist the Kauravas with shafts, without losing a moment.

    Kritaverma vanquished by Bhima……

    Kritavarman, in that battle, covered with his arrows that mighty car-warrior Bhima. Indeed, he overwhelmed the latter entirely, like a mighty mass of clouds shrouding the sun. Then that chastiser of foes viz., Bhimasena, excited with wrath, and laughing the while, sped some shafts at Kritavarman. Struck therewith, that Atiratha of the Satwata race, excelling all in might, trembled not, O king, but (instead) pierced Bhima (in return) with many sharp arrows. Then the mighty Bhimasena, slaying the four steeds of Kritavarman, felled the latter’s charioteer, and then his beautiful standard. And that slayer of hostile heroes (viz., Bhima) then pierced Kritavarman himself with many shafts of diverse kinds. And Kritavarman, pierced all over, seemed to be excessively mangled in every limb. Then from that car whose steeds had been slain, Kritavarman quickly went to the car of Vrishaka, in the very sight, O king, of both Salya and thy son. And Bhimasena. excited with rage, began to afflict thy troops. Goaded to fury, he began to slay them, like the destroyer himself armed with his club.”

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  17. These are the extracts from Shalya Parva. Here Yudhishthira thrashed both Shalya and Kritaverma :

    ….Taking up another bow, Yudhishthira pierced Shalya with three hundred shafts and cut off the latter’s bow with a razor-faced arrow. The son of Pandu then slew the four steeds of his antagonist with some straight arrows. With two other very sharp shafts, he then cut off the two Parshni drivers of Shalya. Then with another blazing, well-tempered and sharp shaft, he cut off the standard of Shalya staying in his front. Then, O chastiser of foes, the army of Duryodhana broke. The son of Drona, at this time, speedily proceeded towards the ruler of the Madras who had been reduced to that plight, and quickly taking him up on his own car, fled away quickly. After the two had proceeded for a moment, they heard Yudhishthira roar aloud.

    …Meanwhile the son of Hridika, riding upon another car, advanced to that spot. The mighty car-warrior Yudhishthira then quickly slew the four steeds of Kritavarma with four shafts, and pierced the son of Gotama with six broad-headed arrows of great force. Then Ashvatthama, taking up on his car the son of Hridika who had been made steedless and carless by the (Pandava) king, bore him away from Yudhishthira’s presence.

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  18. friends,
    bhim vs karna battles (or battle) in jayadrath vadh parva. everybody say that karna lost repeatedly.

    but what is the criteria of being defeated? if a person is made carless , then the carless person takes a new car, and continues the battle, would he be deemed defeated? I don’t think so.

    in every battle bhim just made karna carless. but karna did not refrain from fighting bhim. every time karna was ,made carless, he got himself a new car and continued the battle. would he still be deemed defeated, if he did not run away , never to face bhim again.?

    but when karna made bhim carless, bhim never showed his face again to karna .

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    • Dear Dabangg,

      Following are the extracts from KMG MB :

      …Then Bhima once more cut Karna’s bow at the handle, O sire, and despatched by means of his shafts the latter’s steeds, white as conchs, to the abode of Yama, and the son of Pandu also felled his enemy’s charioteer from his niche in the car. Then Karna, the son of Vikartana, made steedless and driverless, and covered in that battle (with shafts), became plunged into great anxiety. Stupefied by Bhima with his arrowy showers, he knew not what to do. Beholding Karna placed in the distressful plight, king Duryodhana, trembling with wrath, commended (his brother) Durjaya, saying, ‘Go, O Durjaya! There the son of Pandu is about to devour the son of Radha! Slay that beardless Bhima soon, and infuse strength into Karna!’

      …Then Bhima pierced the Suta’s son in return with three shafts endued with the impetuosity of Garuda and he pierced the latter’s charioteer also with seven. Then, O king, Karna thus afflicted by Bhima’s might, became exceedingly distressed. And that illustrious warrior then fled, forsaking the battle, borne away by his fleet steeds. The Atiratha Bhimasena, however, drawing his bow adorned with gold, stayed in battle, looking resplendent like a blazing fire.

      Are these instances also not defeats for Karna ? Karna was getting timely reinforcements. He got extra chariots in time that Bhima didn’t get. The stock of Bhima’s weapons also exhausted, but still he was ready to face Karna in a wrestling fight. When at the end Bhima got reinforcement from Arjuna, Karna had to retreat.

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      • dear anand,
        your statement-Are these instances also not defeats for Karna ? Karna was getting timely reinforcements. He got extra chariots in time that Bhima didn’t get
        ans- well, it was not karna’s fault that bhim wasn’t getting any reinforcement. but the point is that bhim was carless. but he was not maharathi-privilege less. why didn’t he have back-up chariots? or if he did he did not come to fyt again. he was defeated for good.

        next- The stock of Bhima’s weapons also exhausted, but still he was ready to face Karna in a wrestling fight.
        ans- yes, you’ve got a point there. his weapons exhausted. but why didnt he jst grab karna and slammed him on the ground? like with kichak. he needn’t have issued a challenge. it was simple. karn was in a hand distance of bhim(as he had touched his bow to bhim). jst break his chariot and then attack him. disarm him and kill him. simple. but he didn’t. why? this reason is gone with bhim himself.

        next- When at the end Bhima got reinforcement from Arjuna, Karna had to retreat.
        ans-arjun shot arrows at karna from behind. many arrows. his bow had already been cut of by bhim. he too was weaponless. and a sensible person will not face arjun unarmed

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        • No it was not Karna’s fault. But not getting extra chariot and weapons in time caused problem for Bhima. Otherwise he wont have retreated. Karna definitely got the upper hand in last round of that duel but in first 3-4 rounds Bhima got the upper hand against Karna. I agree here with Dhritarastra’s view that both Bhima and Karna can defeat each other.

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      • sorry anand, read the extract later.
        well can you compare the reinforcements of duryyo’s bros and arjun? bhim ne chutki bajayi or vo bacche mar gaye

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  19. The son of Pandu then, jumping down from his car shut his eyes, O king, and rushed on foot with great speed towards the car of Drona. Indeed, as a bovine bull easily bears a heavy shower of rain, even so that tiger among men, viz., Bhima,

    p. 273

    bore that arrowy downpour from Drona’s bow. Struck in that battle, o sire, by Drona, the mighty Bhima, seizing Drona’s car by the shaft, threw it down with great force. Thus thrown down in battle, O king, Drona, however, quickly mounting another car, proceeded towards the gate of the array, his driver urging his steeds at that time with great speed. That feat, O thou of Kuru’s race, achieved by Bhimasena, seemed exceedingly wonderful. The mighty Bhima, then, mounting upon his own car, rushed impetuously towards the army of thy son. And he crushed the Kshatriyas in battle, like a tempest crushing rows of trees. Indeed, Bhima proceeded, resisting the hostile warriors like the mountain resisting the surging sea. Coming then upon the Bhoja-troops that were protected by the son of Hridika, Bhimasena, O king, ground it greatly, and passed through it. Frightening the hostile soldiers with the sound of his palms, O sire, Bhima vanquished them all like a tiger vanquishing a herd of bovine bulls.

    are oh upar waaleeeeee. kya tha yeh, aadmi tha kya ki koyi dinosuar.

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    • Dear Dabangg,

      Following are the extracts from KMG MB :

      …Then Bhima once more cut Karna’s bow at the handle, O sire, and despatched by means of his shafts the latter’s steeds, white as conchs, to the abode of Yama, and the son of Pandu also felled his enemy’s charioteer from his niche in the car. Then Karna, the son of Vikartana, made steedless and driverless, and covered in that battle (with shafts), became plunged into great anxiety. Stupefied by Bhima with his arrowy showers, he knew not what to do. Beholding Karna placed in the distressful plight, king Duryodhana, trembling with wrath, commended (his brother) Durjaya, saying, ‘Go, O Durjaya! There the son of Pandu is about to devour the son of Radha! Slay that beardless Bhima soon, and infuse strength into Karna!’

      …Then Bhima pierced the Suta’s son in return with three shafts endued with the impetuosity of Garuda and he pierced the latter’s charioteer also with seven. Then, O king, Karna thus afflicted by Bhima’s might, became exceedingly distressed. And that illustrious warrior then fled, forsaking the battle, borne away by his fleet steeds. The Atiratha Bhimasena, however, drawing his bow adorned with gold, stayed in battle, looking resplendent like a blazing fire.

      Are these instances also not defeats for Karna ? Karna was getting timely reinforcements. He got extra chariots in time that Bhima didn’t get. The stock of Bhima’s weapons also exhausted, but still he was ready to face Karna in a wrestling fight. When at the end Bhima got reinforcement from Arjuna, Karna had to retreat.

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  20. ‘While the mighty car-warriors Bhimasena was uttering those roars, mighty Karna, unable to bear them, rushed at him with a loud shout, stretching his bow with great force. Indeed, the mighty Karna, desirous of battle, displayed his strength and checked Bhima’s course like a tall tree withstanding tempest. The heroic Bhima also, beholding Vikartana’s son before him, suddenly blazed up in wrath and sped at him with great force many shafts whetted on stone. Karna received all those shafts and sped many in return. At that encounter between Bhima and Karna, hearing the sounds of their palms, the limbs of all the struggling combatants, car-warriors, and horsemen, began to tremble. Indeed, hearing the terrible roars of Bhimasena on the field of battle, even all the foremost of Kshatriyas regarded the whole earth and the welkin to be filled with that noise. And at the fierce peals uttered by the high-souled son of Pandu, the bows of all warriors in that battle dropped on the earth. And steeds and elephants, O king, dispirited, ejected urine and excreta. Various frightful omens of evil then made their appearance. The welkin was covered with flights of vultures and Kankas during that terrific encounter between Bhima and Karna. Then Karna struck Bhima with twenty arrows, and quickly pierced the latter’s charioteer also with five. Smiling the while, the mighty and active Bhima then, in that battle, quickly sped at Karna four and sixty arrows. Then Karna, O king, sped four shafts at him. Bhima, by means of his straight shafts, cut them into many fragments, O king, displaying his lightness of hand. Then Karna covered him with dense showers of arrows. Thus covered by Karna, the mighty son of Pandu, however, cut off Karna’s bow at the handle and then pierced Karna with ten straight arrows. The Suta’s son then, that mighty car-warrior of terrible deeds, taking up another bow and stringing it quickly, pierced Bhima in that battle (with many shafts). Then Bhima, excited with rage, struck the Suta’s son with great force on the chest with three straight shafts. With those arrows sticking at his breast, Karna looked beautiful, O bull of Bharata’s race, like a mountain with three tall summits. Thus pierced with mighty shafts, blood began to flow from his wounds, like torrents of liquid red-chalk down the breast of a mountain. Afflicted with those shafts shot with great force, Karna became agitated a little. Fixing an arrow then on his bow, he pierced

    p. 276

    [paragraph continues] Bhima, again, O sire! And once more he began to shoot arrows by hundreds and thousands. Suddenly shrouded with shafts by that firm bowman, viz., Karna, the son of Pandu, smiling the while, cut off Karna’s bow-string. And then with a broad-headed arrow, he despatched Karna’s charioteer to the abode of Yama. And that mighty car-warrior, viz., Bhima, deprived the four steeds also of Karna of their lives. The mighty car-warrior Karna then speedily jumping down, O king, from his steedless car, mounted the car of Vrishasena. The valiant Bhimasena then, having vanquished Karna in battle, uttered a loud shout deep as the roar of the clouds. Hearing that roar, O Bharata, Yudhishthira became highly gratified, knowing that Karna had been vanquished by Bhimasena. And the combatants of the Pandava army blew their conchs from every side, Their enemies, viz., thy warriors, hearing that noise, roared loudly. Arjuna stretched Gandiva, and Krishna blew Panchajanya. Drowning, however, all those sounds, the noise made by the roaring Bhima, was, O king, heard by all the combatants, O sire! Then those two warriors, viz., Karna, and Bhima, each struck the other with straight shafts. The son of Radha, however, shot shafts mildly, but the son of Pandu shot his with great force.’”

    so in the last para, it is mentioned that karna lost, but we againn c karna fyting bhim, not even a minute later. they thought that karn lost jst bcoz he mounted the ratha of vrishasena

    Sanjaya said, ‘After that army had (thus) been routed, and Arjuna and Bhimasena had all gone after the ruler of the Sindhus, thy son (Duryodhana) proceeded towards Drona. And Duryodhana went to the preceptor, on his single car, thinking, by the way, of diverse duties. That car of thy son, endued with the speed of the wind or thought, proceeded with great celerity towards Drona. With eyes red in wrath, thy son addressed the preceptor and said, ‘O grinder of foes, Arjuna and Bhimasena, and unvanquished Satyaki, and many mighty car-warriors, defeating all our troops, have succeeded in approaching the ruler of the Sindhus. Indeed, those mighty car-warriors, who vanquished all the troops, themselves unvanquished, are fighting even there. O giver of honours, how hast thou been transgressed by both Satyaki and Bhima? O foremost of Brahmanas, this thy defeat at the hands of Satwata, of Arjuna, and of Bhimasena, is like the drying of the ocean, exceedingly wonderful in this world. People are loudly asking, ‘How, indeed, could Drona, that master of the science of arms, be vanquished?’ Even thus all the warriors are speaking in depreciation of thee. Destruction is certain for my luckless self in battle, when three car-warriors, O tiger among men, have if, succession transgressed thee. When, however, all this hath happened, tell us what thou hast to say on the business that awaits us. What hath

    p. 277

    happened, is past. O giver of honours, think now of what is remaining. Say quickly what should next be done for the ruler of the Sindhus on the present occasion, and let what thou sayest be quickly and properly carried out.’

    what happened to karna bhim fyt? kya chuhe kutar gaye?

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  21. friends,
    kritvarman apparently was not totally a maharathi only on papers.he even defeated bhim once here is the text:
    The mighty car-warrior Kritavarman, however, alone, resisted, in that battle the Pandavas thus rushing in fury and wrath with their followers against thy host. As the continent resists the surgings, even so did the son of Hridika resist the troops of the Pandavas in that battle. The prowess that we then beheld of the son of Hridika was wonderful, inasmuch as the united Parthas succeeded not in transgressing his single self. Then the mighty-armed Bhima, piercing Kritavarman with three shafts, blew his conch, gladdening all the Pandavas. Then Sahadeva pierced the son of Hridika with twenty shafts, and Yudhishthira the just pierced him with five and Nakula pierced him with a hundred. And the sons of Draupadi pierced him with three and seventy shafts, Ghatotkacha pierced him with seven. And Virata and Drupada and Drupada’s son (Dhrishtadyumna) each Pierced him with five shafts, and Sikhandin, having once pierced him with

    p. 238

    five, again pierced him smilingly with five and twenty shafts. Then Kritavarman, O king, pierced every one of those great car-warriors with five shafts, and Bhima again with seven. And the son of Hridika felled both the bow and the standard of Bhima from the latter’s car. Then that mighty car-warrior, with great speed, wrathfully struck Bhima, whose bow had been cut off with seventy keen shafts in the chest. Then mighty Bhima, deeply pierced with those excellent shafts of Hridika’s son, trembled on his car like a mountain during an earthquake. Beholding Bhimasena in that condition, the Parthas headed by king Yudhishthira the just afflicted Kritavarman, O king, shooting at him many shafts. Encompassing that warrior there with throngs of cars, O sire, they cheerfully began to pierce him with their shafts, desiring to protect the Wind-god’s son in that battle. Then mighty Bhimasena recovering consciousness, took up in that battle a dart made of steel and equipped with a golden staff, and hurled it with great speed from his own car at the car of Kritavarman. That dart resembling a snake freed from its slough, hurled from Bhima’s hands, fierce-looking, blazed forth as it proceeded towards Kritavarman. Beholding that dart endued with the splendour of the Yuga-fire coursing towards him, the son of Hridika cut it in twain with two shafts. Thereupon, that dart decked with gold, thus cut off, fell down on the earth, illumining the ten points of the compass, O king, like a large meteor falling from the firmament. Seeing his dart baffled, Bhima blazed forth in wrath. Then taking tip another bow which was tougher and whose twang was louder, Bhimasena, filled with wrath, attacked the son of Hridika in that battle. Then O king, Bhima, of terrible might, struck Kritavarman, in the centre of the chest with five shafts, in consequence of thy evil policy, O monarch! The ruler of the Bhoja then, mangled in every limb, O sire, by Bhimasena, shone resplendent in the field like a red Asoka covered with flowers. Then that mighty bowman, viz., Kritavarman, filled with rage, smilingly struck Bhimasena with three shafts, and having struck him forcibly, pierced in return every one of those great car-warriors struggling vigorously in battle, with three shafts. Each of the latter then pierced him in return with seven shafts. Then that mighty car-warrior of the Satwata race, filled with rage, cut off, smiling in that battle, with a razor-faced shaft the bow of Sikhandin. Sikhandin then, seeing his bow cut off, quickly took up a sword and a bright shield decked with a hundred moons. Whirling his large shield, decked with gold, Sikhandin sent that sword towards the car of Kritavarman. That large sword, cutting off, O king, Kritavarman’s bow with arrow fixed thereon, fell down on the earth, like. O monarch, a bright luminary loosened from the firmament. Meanwhile, those mighty car-warriors quickly and deeply pierced Kritavarman with their shafts in that battle. Then that slayer of hostile heroes, viz., the son of Hridika, casting off, that broken bow, and taking up another, pierced each of the Pandavas with three straight shafts. And he pierced Sikhandin at first with three, and then with five shafts. Then the illustrious Sikhandin, taking up another bow, checked the son of Hridika with many swift-flying shafts,

    p. 239

    furnished with heads like tortoise nails. Then, O king, the son of Hridika, inflamed with rage in that battle, rushed impetuously at that mighty car-warrior, viz., the son of Yajnasena, that warrior, O monarch, who was the cause of the illustrious Bhishma’s fall in battle. Indeed, the heroic Kritavarman rushed at Sikhandin, displaying his might, like a tiger at an elephant. Then those two chastisers of foes, who resembled a couple of huge elephants or two blazing fires, encountered each other with clouds of shafts. And they took their best of bows and aimed their arrows, and shot them in hundreds like a couple of suns shedding their rays. And those two mighty car-warriors scorched each other with their keen shafts, and shone resplendent like two Suns appearing at the end of the Yuga. And Kritavarman in that battle pierced that mighty car-warrior viz., Yajnasena’s son, with three and seventy shafts and once more with seven. Deeply pierced therewith, Sikhandin sat down in pain on the terrace of his car, throwing aside his bow and arrows, and was overtaken by a swoon. Beholding that hero in a swoon, thy troops, O bull among men, worshipped the son of Hridika, and waved their garments in the air. Seeing Sikhandin thus afflicted with the shafts of Hridika’s son his charioteer quickly bore that mighty car-warrior away from the battle. The Parthas, beholding Sikhandin lying senseless on the terrace of his car, soon encompassed Kritavarman in that battle with crowds of cars. The mighty car-warrior, Kritavarman, then achieved a most wonderful feat there, inasmuch as, alone, he held in check all the Parthas with their followers. Having thus vanquished the Parthas, that mighty car-warrior then vanquished the Chedis, the Panchalas, the Srinjayas, and the Kekayas, all of whom are endued with great prowess. The forces of the Pandavas then, thus slaughtered by the son of Hridika began to run in all directions, unable to stay coolly in battle. Having vanquished the sons of Pandu headed by Bhimasena himself, the son of Hridika stayed in battle like a blazing fire. Those mighty car-warriors, afflicted with torrents of shafts and routed by Hridika’s son in battle, ventured not to face him.’”

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    • dabangg bhai it shows kritaverma too was good warrior, but he lacked the capability of exhibiting those powers for a greater length of time.

      ‘Listen with undivided attention, O king. After the rout of that force by the high-souled son of Hridika, and upon the Parthas being humiliated with shame and thy troops elated with joy, he that became protector of the Pandavas who were solicitous of protection while sinking in that fathomless sea of distress, that hero, viz., the grandson of Sini, hearing that fierce uproar, of thy army in that terrible fight, quickly turned back and proceeded against Kritavarman. Hridika’s son, Kritavarman, then excited with wrath, covered the grandson of Sini with clouds

      p. 240

      of sharp shafts. At this, Satyaki also became filled with rage. The grandson of Sini then quickly sped at Kritavarman a sharp and broad-headed arrow in the encounter and then four other arrows. These tour arrows slew the steeds of Kritavarman, and the other cut off Kritavarman’s bow. Then Satyaki pierced the charioteer of his foe and those that protected the latter’s rear, with many keen shafts, to afflict his antagonist’s forces. The hostile division then, afflicted with Satyaki’s arrows, broke down. Thereupon, Satyaki of prowess incapable of being baffled, quickly proceeded on his way.

      And Kritavarman proceeded, shaking his bow, and urging his steeds, and urging his charioteer with the words, ‘Go with speed, Go with speed!’ Beholding Kritavarman rushing towards him like the Destroyer himself with wide-open mouth, Yuyudhana, O king, addressed his driver, saying, ‘That Kritavarman, armed with arrows, is rushing in his car towards me with speed. Then, with his steeds urged to their greatest speed, and on his car duly equipped, Satyaki came upon the ruler of the Bhojas, the foremost of all bowmen. Then those two tigers among men, both inflamed with rage, and both resembling fire encountered each other like two tigers endued with great activity. Kritavarman pierced Sini’s grandson with six and twenty whetted arrows of keen points, and the latter’s driver with five arrows. And skilled in battle, the son of Hridika pierced, with four mighty shafts, the four excellent and well-broken steeds of Satyaki that were of the Sindhu breed. Owning a standard decked with gold, and adorned with golden mail, Kritavarman, shaking his formidable bow, whose staff was decked with gold, thus checked, Yuyudhana with shafts equipped with golden wings. Then the grandson of Sini, desirous of seeing

      p. 244

      [paragraph continues] Dhananjaya, sped with great activity eight arrows at Kritavarman. That scorcher of foes, then, deeply pierced by that mighty foe,–that invincible warrior,–began to tremble like a hill during an earthquake. After this, Satyaki, of prowess incapable of being baffled, speedily pierced Kritavarman’s four steeds with three and sixty keen arrows, and his driver also with seven. Indeed, Satyaki, then aiming another arrow of golden wings, that emitted blazing flames and resembled an angry snake, or the rod of the Destroyer himself, pierced Kritavarman. That terrible arrow, penetrating through his antagonist’s effulgent armour decked with gold, entered the earth, dyed with blood. Afflicted with the shafts of Satwata, and bathed in blood in that battle, Kritavarman throwing aside his bow with arrow, fell upon his car. That lion-toothed hero of immeasurable prowess, that bull among men, afflicted by Satyaki with his arrows, fell on his knees upon the terrace of his car. Having thus resisted Kritavarman who resembled the thousand-armed Arjuna of old, or Ocean himself of immeasurable might, Satyaki proceeded onwards. Passing through Kritavarman’s division bristling with swords and darts and bows, and abounding in elephants and steeds and cars, and out of the ground rendered awful in consequence of the blood shed by foremost Kshatriyas numbering by hundreds, that bull among the Sinis proceeded onwards in the very sight of all the troops, like the slayer of Vritra through the Asura array. Meanwhile, the mighty son of Hridika, taking up another huge bow, stayed where he was, resisting Pandavas in battle.’”

      ‘Run, Rush, Seize the steeds of Drona.’ Quickly abandoning Satyaki in that battle, O monarch, all those mighty car-warriors rushed to the place where Drona was. Beholding those car-warriors run away afflicted with the arrows of Satyaki, thy troops once more broke down and became exceedingly cheerless. Meanwhile, Drona, once more proceeding to the gate of the array, took up his station there, borne away (from Satyaki’s presence) by those steeds, fleet as the wind, that had been, afflicted with the shafts of the Vrishni hero. The valiant son of Bharadwaja, beholding the array broken (in his absence) by the Pandavas and the Panchalas, made no endeavour to follow the grandson of Sini, but employed himself in protecting his (broken) array. Checking the Pandavas and the Panchalas then, the Drona fire, blazing up in wrath stayed there, consuming everything, like the sun that rises at the end of the Yuga.’”

      But know, O Drona, that myself, I am not compassionate like Arjuna. On the other hand, I am Bhimasena, thy foe. We regard thee as our father, preceptor, and friend. Ourselves we look upon as thy sons. Thinking so we always humble ourselves to thee. When, however, thou usest such words towards us today, it seems that all that is altered. If thou regardest thyself as our foe, let it be as thou thinkest. Being none else than Bhima, I will presently act towards thee as I should towards a foe.’ Saying this, Bhima whirling a mace, like the Destroyer himself whirling his fatal rod, hurled it, O king, at Drona. Drona, however, had quickly jumped down from his car, (and that proved his safety). For that mace pressed down into the earth the car of Drona, with its steeds, driver, and standard. Then Bhima crushed numerous warriors like the tempest crushing trees with its force. Then those sons of thine once more encompassed that foremost of car-warriors. Meanwhile, Drona, that foremost of smiters mounting another chariot, proceeded to the gate of the array and stayed there for battle. Then, O king, the angry Bhima of great prowess, covered the car-division in his front with showers of shafts. Then those mighty car-warriors, viz., thy sons, thus struck in battle, endued as they were with great strength fought with Bhima from desire of victory. Then Duhsasana, excited with wrath, hurled at Bhimasena a keen dart made entirely of iron, wishing to slay the son of Pandu. Bhima however, cut in twain that fierce dart hurled by thy son, as it coursed towards him. This feat seemed exceedingly wonderful. The mighty son of Pandu, then, with three other keen shafts, slew the three brothers Kundabhedin and Sushena and Dirghanetra. And, again, amongst those heroic sons of thine battling with him, Bhima slew heroic Vrindaraka, that enhancer of the fame of the Kurus. And again, with three other shafts, Bhima slew three other sons of thine, viz., Abhaya and Raudrakarman and Durvimochana. Thus slaughtered, O king, by that mighty warrior, thy sons surrounded, Bhima, that foremost of smiters on all sides. They then showered their arrows upon that son of Pandu, of terrible deeds, like the cloud at the end of summer pouring torrents of rain on the mountain-breast. That slayer of hosts, the heir of Pandu, received that arrowy shower, like a mountain receiving a shower of stones. Indeed, the heroic Bhima felt no pain. Then the son of Kunti, smiling the while, despatched by means of his shafts thy son Vinda and Anuvinda and Suvarman to the abode of Yama. Then the son of Pandu, O bull of Bharata’s race, quickly pierced in that battle thy heroic son Sudarsan. The latter, thereupon, fell down and expired. Within a very short time, the son of Pandu, casting his glances on that car-force caused it by his shafts to fly away in all directions. Then like a herd of deer frightened at the clatter of car-wheels, or a loud shout, thy sons, in that battle, O king, afflicted with the fear of Bhimasena, suddenly broke and fled. The son of Kunti, however, pursued that large force of thy sons, and began, O king, to pierce the Kauravas from every side. Thy soldiers, O monarch, thus slaughtered by Bhimasena, fled away from battle, avoiding

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      the son of Pandu and urging their own excellent steeds to their greatest speed. The mighty Bhimasena then, having vanquished them in battle, uttered leonine roars and made a great noise by slapping his armpits. And the mighty Bhima, having made also a fierce noise with his palms, and thereby frightened that car-force and the foremost of warriors that were in it, passed towards the division of Drona, transgressing that car-force (which he had vanquished.)’

      ‘After the son of Pandu had crossed that car-force, the preceptor Drona, smiling the while, covered him with showers of arrows, desirous of checking his course. Stupefying thy force then with his powers of illusion, and drinking, as it were, those shafts shot from the bow of Drona, Bhimasena rushed against those brothers (viz., thy sons). Then many kings, that were all great bowmen, urged by thy sons, rushing impetuously, began to surround him. Encompassed by them, O Bharata, Bhima smiling the while and uttering a leonine roar, took up and hurled at them with great force a fierce mace destructive of hostile ranks. That mace of adamantine strength, hurled like Indra’s thunder by Indra himself, crushed, O king, thy soldiers in battle. And it seemed to fill, O king, the whole earth with loud noise. And blazing forth in splendour, that fierce mace inspired thy sons with fear. Beholding that mace of impetuous course and endued with lightning flashes, coursing towards them, thy warriors fled away, uttering frightful cries. And at the unbearable sound, O sire, of that fierce mace, many men fell down where they stood, and many car-warriors also fell down from their cars. Slaughtered by Bhimasena armed with the mace, thy warriors fled away in fear from battle, like the deer attacked by a tiger. The son of Kunti, routing in battle those valorous foes of his, impetuously crossed that force like Garuda of beautiful feathers.

      “While Bhimasena, that leader of leaders of car-divisions, was engaged in such carnage, Bharadwaja’s son, O king, rushed at him. And Drona, checking Bhima by means of his arrowy showers, suddenly uttered a leonine roar that inspired the Pandavas with fear. The battle that took place between Drona and the high-souled Bhima was, O king, furious and terrible and resembled the encounter between the gods and the Asuras of old. Heroic warriors by hundreds and thousands in that battle slain by the keen shafts shot from the bow of Drona. The son of Pandu then, jumping down from his car shut his eyes, O king, and rushed on foot with great speed towards the car of Drona. Indeed, as a bovine bull easily bears a heavy shower of rain, even so that tiger among men, viz., Bhima,

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      bore that arrowy downpour from Drona’s bow. Struck in that battle, o sire, by Drona, the mighty Bhima, seizing Drona’s car by the shaft, threw it down with great force. Thus thrown down in battle, O king, Drona, however, quickly mounting another car, proceeded towards the gate of the array, his driver urging his steeds at that time with great speed. That feat, O thou of Kuru’s race, achieved by Bhimasena, seemed exceedingly wonderful. The mighty Bhima, then, mounting upon his own car, rushed impetuously towards the army of thy son. And he crushed the Kshatriyas in battle, like a tempest crushing rows of trees. Indeed, Bhima proceeded, resisting the hostile warriors like the mountain resisting the surging sea. Coming then upon the Bhoja-troops that were protected by the son of Hridika, Bhimasena, O king, ground it greatly, and passed through it. Frightening the hostile soldiers with the sound of his palms, O sire, Bhima vanquished them all like a tiger vanquishing a herd of bovine bulls.

      guys just calculate how many kauravas were killed in drona’s presence.

      bhisma advised to them was right, he asked them to avoid bhimsen totally.

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      • smartboy,
        yes he lacked the power of exhibiting his prowess for a big time but still defeating 4 pandavas along wwith ghatotkach at the same time is not a child’s play

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  22. Guys Jarashandha knew his doom has come upon him.

    he was doing a yagna to get boon from Shiva. If he got that boon he would have become so called invincible.

    Jarashnadha installed his son as King what for?

    he in jealously did not fight with Krishna.

    With troops against troops arrayed in order of battle, or alone against one, or against two, or against three, at the same time or separately, I am ready to fight.’”
    Vaisampayana said,–

    “HAVING SPOKEN THUS, AND DESIRING TO FIGHT WITH THOSE HEROES OF TERRIBLE ACHIEVEMENTS, KING JARASANDHA ORDERED (HIS SON) SAHADEVA TO BE INSTALLED ON THE THRONE.

    Then, O bull of the Bharata race, the king, on the eve of battle, thought of his two generals Kausika and Chitrasena. These two, O king, were formerly called by everybody in the world of men by the respectful appellations of Hansa and Dimvaka. And, O monarch, that tiger among men, the lord Sauri ever devoted to truth, the slayer of Madhu, the younger brother of Haladhara, the foremost of all persons having their senses under complete control, keeping in view the command of Brahma and remembering that the ruler of Magadha was destined to be slain in battle by Bhima and not by the descendant of Madhu (Yadavas), desired not to slay himself king Jarasandha, that foremost of all men endued with strength, that hero possessed of the prowess of a tiger, that warrior of terrible valour.”
    -’then that foremost of all speakers, Krishna of the Yadava race, addressing king Jarasandha who was resolved upon fighting, said,–’O king, with whom amongst us three dost thou desire to fight? Who amongst us shall prepare himself for battle (with thee)?’ Thus addressed, the ruler of Magadha, king Jarasandha of great splendour, expressed his desire for fighting with Bhima. The priest then, bringing with him the yellow pigment obtained from the cow and garlands of flowers and other auspicious articles, as also various excellent medicines for restoring lost consciousness and alleviating pain, approached Jarasandha, panting for battle. The king Jarasandha, on whose behalf propitiatory ceremonies
    p. 51
    with benedictions were performed by a renowned Brahmana, remembering the duty of a Kshatriya dressed himself for battle. Taking off his crown and binding his hair properly, Jarasandha stood up like an ocean bursting its continents. Then the monarch possessed of terrible prowess, addressing Bhima. said, ‘I WILL FIGHT WITH THEE. IT IS BETTER TO BE VANQUISHED BY A SUPERIOR PERSON.’

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  23. Sanjay bhai I have no idea about the source. I was just looking on the net about Jarashandha’s mace. the story goes like this Jarashandha got a divine mace from some power perhaps Mahadeva and he hurl that mace from Magadha to Dwarika.
    after he couldn’t no longer reach Dwarika. That mace fell at some part of Dwarika and caused huge destruction. Don’t remember the latter part of the story.

    here is the story

    . Endued with the splendour of fire, that mace coursed towards us dividing the welkin like the line on the head that parts the tresses of a woman, and with the impetuosity of the thunder hurled by Sakra. Beholding that mace thus coursing towards us the son of Rohini hurled the weapon called Sthunakarna for baffling it. Its force destroyed by the energy of Valadeva’s weapon, that mace fell down on the earth, splitting her (with its might) and making the very mountains tremble. There was a terrible Rakshasa of the name Jara, endued with great prowess. She, O prince, had united that slayer of foes, and, therefore, was the latter calledJarasandha. Jarasandha had been made up of two halves of one child. And because it was Jara that had united those two halves, it was for this that he came to be called Jarasandha. 1 That Rakshasa woman, O Partha, who was there within the earth, was slain with her son and kinsmen by means-of that mace and the weapon of Sthunakarna. Deprived of his mace in that great battle, Jarasandha
    p. 421
    was afterwards slain by Bhimasena in thy presence, O Dhananjaya.

    sachin may not acknowledge Krishna, but Kauravas did. His killing of Narakushura is applauded even by Karna.

    ‘Indeed, O king, every night this formed the subject of deliberation with Duryodhana and Sakuni and myself and Duhsasana. And we said unto Karna, ‘Excluding all other warriors, O Karna, slay Dhananjaya. We would then lord it over the Pandu’s and the Panchalas as if these were our slaves. OR, IF UPON PARTHA’S FALL, HE OF VRISHNI’S RACE APPOINTS ANOTHER AMONGST THE SONS OF PANDU (IN THIS PLACE FOR CARRYING ON THE FIGHT), LET KRISHNA HIMSELF BE SLAIN.

    KRISHNA IS THE ROOT OF THE PANDAVAS, AND PARTHA IS LIKE THEIR RISEN TRUNK. THE OTHER SONS OF PRITHA ARE LIKE THEIR BRANCHES, WHILE THE PANCHALAS MAY BE CALLED THEIR LEAVES.

    THE PANDAVAS HAVE KRISHNA FOR THEIR REFUGE, KRISHNA FOR THEIR MIGHT, KRISHNA FOR THEIR LEADER.

    INDEED, KRISHNA IS THEIR CENTRAL SUPPORT EVEN AS THE MOON IS OF THE CONSTELLATIONS. THEREFORE, O SUTA’S SON, AVOIDING THE LEAVES AND BRANCHES AND TRUNK, SLAY THAT KRISHNA WHO IS EVERYWHERE AND ALWAYS THE ROOT OF THE PANDAVAS.

    Indeed, if Karna had slain him of Dasarha’s race, viz., that delighter of the Yadavas, the whole earth, O king, would, without doubt, have come under thy control. Truly, O monarch, if that illustrious one, that delighter of both the Yadavas and the Pandavas, could be made to lie down on the earth, deprived of life, then certainly, O monarch, the entire earth with the mountains and forests would have owned thy supremacy.

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  24. Seeing his own army showered with an extremely fearsome cloud of arrows , Krishna twang his bow known as Saranga , which is worshipped by both Devas and demons. Krishna taking arrows from his quiver shot endless stream of arrows striking the elephants , chariots , the horses and the soldiers. The elephants fell to ground , the chariots too were felled with their horses, the foot soldiers , drivers and masters were all left with shattered limbs. The battle field resembled rivers of blood .

    For him who creates , sustains and destroy the world , this is indeed not great task . But for him in the human form to achieve this indeed is celebrated by all . With all the army of Magadha annihilated , the all powerful Balaram caught hold of the equally powerful Jarasandha who is now without his chariot and any other support , like a lion catching another lion. As he was being bound by divine ropes , Govinda stopped Balaram. He told Balaram that there are many things to be achieved through Jarasandha and Jarasandha shall be left free to go back .Accordingly Balaram left him free.

    Thus released by the two Lords , Jarasandha , always recognized by all as a hero , felt humiliated. He resolved to become an acetic to do penance and started for the forests . Jarasandha was then stopped by the other kings . With lofty words they convinced Jarasandha that the defeat is only due to past actions accumulating as his Karma . They forced him to abandon that course of action to regroup. Thus with his life spared by the Bhagavan , Jarasandha returned to Magadha in a defeated mood.

    With his own army intact and the enemies vanquished , Krishna was greeted with flowers by the celestials.

    People of Mathura now free from fear and happy welcomed the Lords singing victory songs . The Lords entry into city was welcomed by sounding of conches drums trumpets and many other instruments like Veena , Flute ,and Mridanga. The thoroughly swept streets of Mathura , decorated with flags and arches were filled with happy people singing glories of Krishna amid sounds of Vedic hymns being chanted. Women sprinkled flowers, curds , unbroken rice, , while those waiting looked on with wide open eyes completely in awe with the achievements of the Lords Krishna and Balaram .What ever booty was captured in the war was placed before Ugrasena ,the King of Yadus

    There after Jarasandha led seventeen such expeditions each time with twenty three divisions of army against Yadus , who were under the protection of Krishna . Each time Vrishnis destroyed his armies with help of Lord Krishna , and the King of Magadha was spared every time .The lords plan was indeed working towards the reduction of evil forces on the earth.

    When he was about to come for the eighteenth time, Narad prompted Kalayavana , a barbarian also to join the attack. He came to Mathura with three and half crore Yavans , since he thought he has an equal opponent in Yadus

    Seeing the impending threat, being very much concerned Krishna and Balaram thought , ‘ Now Yadus have a difficulty . This Yavan with big army is facing us today, the King of Magadha may also attack in day or two ! If Jarasandha were to appear when we are fighting Yavan , he is sure to kill all our people. To get out of this , we should build an impregnable fort that can shelter our people and then we must also have Yavan destroyed by some body else “.

    Having resolved , the Lord built a city at the center of a twelve Yojanas of fortified area in the middle of the sea .

    That was the city of Dwaraka.

    It is a city planned by Viswakarma as per the rules for building cities .There were properly planned main thoroughfares with side roads and parks . On both sides of the roads stood houses again built as per Vastu. Indra provided the “Sudharma “ assembly hall and a Parijata tree. Varuna provided dark blue and white horses which travel with the mind of speed . Each and every leader of the Planets offered all those which were in effect provided to them by the Supreme Lord. Now they were returning the same to the Supreme Lord in the Human form

    Krishna now moved all people from Mathura to the new capital Dwaraka . Then after consulting Balaram who remained in Mathura protecting the city , Krishna left Mathura city through the main exit wearing only a garland of flowers to meet Kalayavana , the terrible Barbarian without wearing any arms .

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    • Good find, Smarty but from where?
      The prose does not confirm it is from KMG/MB. If it is from KMG/MB then Parva and section number etc…
      Anyhow it confirms all what we have been saying –
      o Krishna was mighty one and beyond all warriors
      o He did not run away from Mathura for fear of Jarasandha but on his own will to save his people
      o Balrama was better of Jarasandha
      o Jarasandha could not do anything to his enemies inspite of so many attacks

      But few queries –
      Kalyawan getting 3.5 crore Yavans to fight with Krishna means army even larger than 18 akshauhini senas of Kurukshetra war? Almost 7 times???
      Reference of Ugersena suggests that Krishna was not the king of Yadavas?

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      • Chill Sanjay Bhai…. Dont conclude in a hurry.. This is not from Vyas MB, but it is from Srimad Bhagavatam, a fairy tale of Krishna’s glorifications….. If you read Madhavacharya, then you will say that Bhima was a greater god than Krishna…. So dont get too excited after reading these fairy tales…..

        Vyas MB clearly mentions that Krishna himself telling to yudi that Yadavas ran away from Mathura from the fear of Jarasandh…..

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        • Sachin I am quite madhavacharya experienced myself as my old and honorable friend mr chiraan is his follower. The philosophy is harisarvottama vayu jeevottama. Krishna is hari according to them. Krishna is not inferior to bhima. Voh baat alag hai ki according to them Bhima greater than everybody else except Krishna is their basis.

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      • Even I know that hence my post to Smarty…
        Krishna did much more than just waging wars or so-called running away in his life. He is beyond comparisons. Nothing out of religious sentiments but from my understanding of his character.

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  25. Dabangg bhai,

    from your post it appears arjuna wanted to kill duryo.

    this is the particular quality of sachin I hate the most.

    Firstly this not speculation as sachin is pretty confident that it is true . but this not fact either.

    drona seize half part of panchalas becs by doing so it makes him equal to drupada.

    Who doesn’t love wealth . drona did but he could have captured the whole kingdom . what drupada can do that time. He was a captive of drona. Living under mercy of drona.

    sachin it is great that you want to judge everything in a rational way. But I would suggest you to make it bit broader.

    I too doubt drona’s integrity. But with substantial backing of texts.

    ‘Then, O king, the mighty son of Bharadyaja presented himself before Drupada, and addressing that monarch, said, ‘Know me for thy friend.’ Thus addressed by his friend, the son of Bharadwaja, with a joyous heart, the lord of the Panchalas was ill-able to bear that speech. The king, intoxicated with the pride of wealth, contracted his brows in wrath, and with reddened eyes spake these words unto Drona, ‘O Brahmana, thy intelligence is scarcely of a high order, inasmuch as thou sayest unto me, all on a sudden, that thou art my friend! O thou of dull apprehension, great kings can never be friends with such luckless and indigent wights as thou! It is true there had been friendship between thee and me before, for we were then both equally circumstanced. But Time that impaireth everything in its course, impaireth friendship also. In this world, friendship never endureth for ever in any heart. Time weareth it off and anger destroyeth it too. Do not stick, therefore, to that worn-off friendship. Think not of it any longer. THE FRIENDSHIP I HAD WITH THEE, O FIRST OF BRAHMANAS, WAS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

    THE INDIGENT AND THE AFFLUENT CAN NEITHER BE FRIENDS NOR QUARREL WITH EACH OTHER. ONE OF IMPURE BIRTH CAN NEVER BE A FRIEND TO ONE OF PURE BIRTH; ONE WHO IS NOT A CAR-WARRIOR CAN NEVER BE A FRIEND TO ONE WHO IS SO; AND ONE WHO IS NOT A KING NEVER HAVE A KING FOR HIS FRIEND. THEREFORE, WHY DOST THOU DESIRE THE CONTINUANCE OF OUR FORMER FRIENDSHIP?’

    another statement = Karna received Angdesh from Duryo, for the sake of becoming eligible to fight with Arjun at Rangshala, but he didnt return it to Duryo after that….. This clearly proves that Karna was also kingdom hungry

    reply= why are you sticking with Angadesh, even if he had return Angadesh would it have made him any poorer or richer.

    he was whole time living at hastinapura. It was an recognition given for his worthiness.

    suppose your boss gives you a flat, and you return it after some years.

    what it means, you are trying to show that you never desired for such luxury. Great thing.

    But the whole time you are living in the bungalow of your boss. It does not gives the same indication.

    returning the gift means returning the favor.

    most importantly it was not idea of duryodhana to conquered the whole world, his life was limited to Pandavas only.

    it was karna whose image was tarnished after the ghandharva incident. He was accompanied by none neither drona nor aswatthama nor anyone else. It was his fight for honor.

    And from the ill-will he beareth towards thee, he hateth me also. And, O lord of men, in thy presence he ever crieth me down. I shall never, O Bharata, bear these words that Bhishma had said in thy presence in relation to this matter, extolling the Pandavas, and censuring thee, O represser of foes! Do thou, O king, enjoin on me, together with servants, forces, and cars. I shall, O monarch, conquer the earth furnished with mountains and woods and forests. THE EARTH HAD BEEN CONQUERED BY THE FOUR POWERFUL PANDAVAS. I SHALL, WITHOUT DOUBT, CONQUER IT FOR THEE SINGLE-HANDED. LET THAT WRETCH OF THE KURU RACE, THE EXCEEDINGLY WICKED-MINDED BHISHMA, SEE IT,–HE WHO VILIFIES THOSE THAT DO NOT DESERVE CENSURE, AND PRAISES THOSE THAT SHOULD NOT BE PRAISED. LET HIM THIS DAY WITNESS MY MIGHT, AND BLAME HIMSELF. DO THOU, O KING, COMMAND ME. VICTORY SHALL SURELY BE THINE. BY MY WEAPON, O MONARCH, I SWEAR THIS BEFORE THEE.’
    “O king, O bull of the Bharata race, hearing those words of Karna, that lord of men, experiencing the highest delight, spoke unto Karna, saying, ‘I am blessed. I have been favoured by thee,–since thou, endued with great strength, art ever intent on my welfare. My life hath borne fruit, to-day. As thou, O hero, intendest to subdue all our enemies, repair thou. May good betide thee! Do thou command me (what I am to do),’ O subduer of foes, having been thus addressed by Dhritarashtra’s intelligent son, Karna ordered all the necessaries for the excursion. And on an auspicious lunar day, at an auspicious moment, and under the influence of a star presided over by an auspicious deity, that mighty bowman, having been honoured by twice-born ones, and been bathed with auspicious and holy substances and also worshipped by speech set out, filling with the rattle of his car the three
    p. 502
    worlds, with their mobile and immobile objects.”

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  26. friends,
    arjun to krishna,
    drona parva section CII
    The chief of the celestials gave this effulgent armour to Angiras. From the latter it was obtained by Vrihaspati. And from Vrihaspati it was got by Purandara. The Lord of the celestials once more gave it to me with the mantras to be uttered in wearing it. Even if this armour were divine, if it were created by Brahma himself, still the wretch, Duryodhana, struck with my arrows, shall not be protected by it.’

    “Sanjaya continued, ‘Having said these words, Arjuna inspired some arrows with mantras, and began to draw them on the bow-string. And while he was thus drawing them on the bow-string, the son of Drona cut them off with a weapon that was capable of baffling every weapon. Beholding those shafts of his thus frustrated from a distance by that utterer of Brahma (Aswatthaman), Arjuna, owning white steeds, filled with amazement represented unto Kesava, saying, ‘I cannot, Janardana, twice use this weapon, for if do so, it will slay my own self and my own troops.

    here arjun, tries a celestial weapon to break the armor of duryo. he says that if he uses it again, the weapon “will slay my own self and my own troops.” yahan kis weapon ki baat kar raha hai arjun?

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  27. Dear Sanjay bhai,

    Your statement-”Nothing wrong with the theory and speculations but let us see the practicalities of them”

    My ans- Firstly those were not the theories of assumptions of mine but those were the facts from MB which i gave….

    Your statement-”1.First of all one needs the intent and ambition to expand one’s kingdom which was never shown by Bhishma, Drona and Karna”

    My ans- Now, this is called as a theory or speculation…..

    Drona went to Drupad to ask for half of his kingdom… Why ?? This shows that Drona wanted wealth & kingdom, that is why he kept half the kingdom of Drupad after Pandavas defeated Drupad for him…. This clearly proves the intent and ambition of Drona to rule a kingdom…..

    Karna received Angdesh from Duryo, for the sake of becoming eligible to fight with Arjun at Rangshala, but he didnt return it to Duryo after that….. This clearly proves that Karna was also kingdom hungry……

    Now, just like in today’s politics, every Politician joins the politics for the sake of gaining power, similarly in the kingdom of politics every king wanted to become a Superpower who should be respected by every other king…..

    We know that a politician will never think that he has no intent and ambition to gain power in Indian politics or to Govern….. Similarly, you cannot say that people like Bhishma, Drona and Karna etc hadnt had the the intent or ambition to expand one’s kingdom…. because if it was so, then they all should have left the Royal life & their kingdoms & should have lived in Vanvaas…..

    And spreading one’s kingdom is not a sign of being greedy for land, but it was a sign of a Good king who wanted his Kingdom to be a strong one, so that no external king could attack his kingdom, so that his population is safe from external attacks….. So it was the duty of a king to safeguard his common people….

    After Pandavas’ Ashwamedh Yagya, Pandavas won the whole India, so after that no king attacked other king because of Pandavas dominance, hence peace prevailed over whole India for generations…..

    On the contrary, during Bhishma’s reign, his own King(Chitrangad) got killed by an external king & Bhishma could not safeguard his borders fron gandharvas & Nagas, so this clearly shows the inabilities of Bhishma….. hence giving excuses of not having an intent or ambition to expand one’s kingdom is not justified here….. If bhishma could not save his own King/border, so how can you expect him to win other kingdoms ??

    Your statement-”2.Second the qualification and eligibility to do so which was another issue with all of them”

    My ans- Drona & Karna were very much eligible to perform their own Rajsuya/Ashamedh Yagya, as they were independent kings…..

    Although Bhishma was not the king, still he could have performed the Rajsuya/Ashamedh Yagya of Chitrangad/Vichitrvirya/Dhritrashtra…. But the possibility is that even these kings knew that Bhishma was not competant enough to perform such Yagyas, so the fact is that these kings didnt ever ordered Bhishma to go for Digvijay….. While king Pandu had the capabilities, hence he himself went for the Digvijay instead of ordering Bhishma to got for it……

    Hence qualification and eligibility was no barrier for Bhishma….

    Your statement-”In case of Bhishma he was a caretaker and not a king himself so he was neither qualified nor capable to expand Hastinapur on his own will. ”

    My ans- You have given this CARETAKER excuse umpteen times…. Do you mean to say that Bhishma was just there to spoon feed Chitrangad/Vichitrvirya/Dhritrashtra by making him sit on his lap ?? …. On the contrary, if had Bhishma been the king then his life would have been more precious then just being the caretaker…. Look at Pandavas, on both Rajsuya/Ashamedh Yagya, they didnt allow Yudi to take part in it because the life of Yudi was more precious than remaining 4 Pandavas……

    Your statement-”His focus throughout his life was to ensure there is some king on the throne.”

    My ans- But he even failed in this goal, because an external king(Gandharva) came & killed Bhishma’s king Chitrangad & Bhishma could do nothing…. Bhishma at best could only produce more kings with the help of the sperms of Vyas…..

    Your statement-”In case of Drona, he was also not a king himself but Brahmin teacher. His main aim was to earn his livelihood and not expand the kingdom.”

    My ans- THen why did Drona kept half of Drupad’s kingdom ??

    Your statement-” He became their teacher when they were kids and speculating that they would do the job for him many years later is unforeseen. However, while teaching and seeing his students growing into capable warriors (including Kauravas) might have given him idea of using them for his purpose.”

    My ans- KMG does not support your view….

    Your statement-”Still he did his Vijay yatra to donate won-over kingdoms to Duryo. This yatra happened after Pandavas Rajsuya yaga. Pandavas gave away their empire to Duryo in dice game post Rajsuya yaga. So Karna had to win over only those kingdoms which were not part of Rajsuya yaga, I believe. The kingdoms won over during Rajsuya yaga automatically came under Duryo after dice game. So in a way Karna completed Pandavas Rajsuya yaga. In fact the purpose of all these yagas was to subjugate kings and their kingdoms by making them accept the supremacy of the yaga performer so how could either of them supersede the importance of other yagas is beyond my understanding.”

    My ans- This is it…. THis is what i was talking about you Sanjay…. Firstly, you havent read the MB in detail…. Secondly, you dont know the meanings of Rajsuya/Ashamedh Yagya…. But still you tried to give your own funny conclusions based on your hypothetical thoughts….. I had told you previously to be carefull what you claim in this blog, because if you claim such funny conclusions then mockery of your opinions are bound to be made here… after which you get furious ….. Above conclusion of yours is really making me laugh now…..

    Firstly Karna did Vaishnav-Yagya for Duryo, in which Karna DID NOT win any kingdom, but he only collected tax from a limited number of kingdoms of his choice(not all)… So this DID NOT estabilish Duryo as the Samraat….. This yagya was performed only to increase your treasury & to estabilish your superiority over a limited kingdoms….. Even Pandavas performed such conquests just after Yudi was made the Yuvraaj of Hastinapur(before Lakshgruh)…. Hence significance of such Vaishna Yagyas was not much…

    In Rajsuya Yagya of Pandavas, they DID NOT win any kingdom, but they subjugated “ALL” the kings of India, estabilishing Indraprasth as the strongest kingdom of India & estabilishing Yudi as a Samraat…. So although all the other kings had to follow the orders of Samraat king, still they DID NOT lose the soveriegnity of their kingdoms……

    In Ashwamedh Yagya of Pandavas, Pandavas WON all the Kingdoms of India & all the kings just became the nominal kings of their respective kingdoms as they lost their soveriegnity as well…..

    In Dyuta, Yudi just lost the Indraprasth to Duryo, so it didnt make Duryo or Dhritrashtra as a Samraat, because a post like Samraat is non transferable…. E.g if Yudi had given his kingdom to his son Prativindhya, then Prativindhya would not have become a Samraat automatically…. Because for becoming a Samraat, Prativindhya had to perform his own Rajsuya Yagya after the death of Yudi…. That is why the Brahmanas barred Duryo for performing Rajsuya Yagya, because Yudi was still alive at that time, & so there cant be 2 Samraat’s at a time… So for making himself a Samraat, the only options left for Duryo was to kill Yudi & then perform his own Rajsuya Yagya, which was not possible for Duryo…. Hence he chose an alternative to perfrom Vaishnava Yagya so as to satisfy his thirst of popularity…..

    I hope you have understood by now that every Yagya had different significance & different output……..

    Your statement-”Similarly on the emotional ground war could get delayed by 10 days till Bhishma was subdued by Arjun. Rest three were neither killed nor subdued by Arjun for next eight days. So thinking that Pandavas were mighty enough to finish war in few minutes or days is little exaggeration.”

    My ans- Whole Kaurava army could not stand in front of a lone armyless Arjun for few hours in Viraat war, so do you they had a chance to survive for long agaist a full fledged Pandava army(which never ever faced a defeat)… ??

    Arjun let Bhishma survive for 10 days & Duryo was always hiding behind Bhishma, so war continued for 10 day…. After this, Arjun never attempted to kill Drona, so Pandavas eliminated him by other strategy, which took them another 5 days…. Total 15 days…. After this, Arjun still had emotional barrier for Kripa/Ashwatthama, but they wiped out remaining Kuru amy in next 2 days…. on 18th day Duryo was alone, so he Ran away…..

    Your statement-”Since Virat war feat was never repeated by Arjun it is also open to scrutiny and all sorts of reactions.”

    My ans- Wake up from your dreamy world of Arjuna’s hatered Sanjay….. Arjun repeated the Viraat performance on 14th day, where he single-handedly broke the Kamal-Vhiew of Drona & defeated almost whole Kuru army & Whole Kuru army could not stop Arjun from killing Jaydrath just for a day……

    Your statement-”The best strategy I must say saving everybody’s time, energy, love, respect, emotions, weapons and of course few desireable lives!”

    My ans- Very non-practical thinking…. We had discussed previously & had come to a consensus that it was not possible for Pandavas to kill 100 Kauravas without killing people like Bhishma/Drona… Even Smartboy agreed to it….

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    • Dear Sachin,

      Your statement –“Firstly those were not the theories of assumptions of mine but those were the facts from MB which i gave….”

      My answer – what you shared were your opinions not facts from MB. The best you did was to insert your opinions in the storyline to establish that it is how it was. Bhishma was not qualified to perform any yaga since HE WAS NOT KING is the fact from MB. What he could have or would have done is speculation only na……
      Chitragandha, Vichitrvirya, Pandu and Dhritrashtra were four kings he served. As per MB which one ordered him to perform any yaga? Or which one out of these wanted to perform yaga but did not do so citing the incapabilities of Bhishma? So what facts from MB are you talking about please clarify? Please share relevant passages from MB on your facts.
      Only Pandu became Samrat..Did he do so by his own choice or Bhishma’s choice? If Bhishma was with him in all of his wars then Bhishma was important to his success. If Bhishma was not there then it was king’s call to do so. Either way none of the possibilities support your speculation.

      Your statement-”Now, this is called as a theory or speculation…..Drona went to Drupad to ask for half of his kingdom… Why ?? This shows that Drona wanted wealth & kingdom, that is why he kept half the kingdom of Drupad after Pandavas defeated Drupad for him…. This clearly proves the intent and ambition of Drona to rule a kingdom…..”

      My answer – Incorrect. Drona went to ask for a cow citing their friendship in the first instance and not the kingdom. Inspite of winning Drupad in guru-dakshina war Drona kept only half of his kingdom. I believe the idea was to make Drupad understand that both were equal. Given your assumption he could have easily taken the whole kingdom which he did not do. So kindly share which fact from MB you are referring to for speculating things against Drona.

      Your statement –“Karna received Angdesh from Duryo, for the sake of becoming eligible to fight with Arjun at Rangshala, but he didnt return it to Duryo after that….. This clearly proves that Karna was also kingdom hungry……Now, just like in today’s politics, every Politician joins the politics for the sake of gaining power, similarly in the kingdom of politics every king wanted to become a Superpower who should be respected by every other king…..”

      My answer – Karna DID NOT ask for Angdesh (a fact from MB) has been repeated many times earlier also. Taking and returning back of kingdoms is not like hiring somebody’s bicycle. By the way Angdesh was very much under Hastinapur so if Dhritrashtra could never perform yaga through Bhishma then why through a Sutaputra? If Duryo could not qualify to perform it how could Karna? Since you have read MB you might have noticed that Karna has been addressed as suta’s son or Radhey or Radha’s son or son of Vikartana and not as “Angraaj” as in TV serials. So his position even as king of Angdesh is also under doubt as per the facts of MB. Still please share what other facts from MB made you speculate such things if not your intention of character assassination.

      Your statement –“We know that a politician will never think that he has no intent and ambition to gain power in Indian politics or to Govern….. Similarly, you cannot say that people like Bhishma, Drona and Karna etc hadnt had the the intent or ambition to expand one’s kingdom…. because if it was so, then they all should have left the Royal life & their kingdoms & should have lived in Vanvaas…..And spreading one’s kingdom is not a sign of being greedy for land, but it was a sign of a Good king who wanted his Kingdom to be a strong one, so that no external king could attack his kingdom, so that his population is safe from external attacks….. So it was the duty of a king to safeguard his common people….”

      My answer – Valid point to justify yagas but not to confirm that kings and politicians ought to be power hungry. Politicians and kings doing what they are qualified to do, does not mean that all of them would do THAT only. Are you saying that every politician and king is greedy and ambitious by default? Or if a non-ambitious person joins politics or become king he becomes greedy and ambitious automatically? Yes one may set the goals but may not adopt all sorts of means to achieve them. So that intent and qualification is ever important. Another thing you are saying is that if somebody from royal family does not have such ambition he should take vanvaas? That means everybody else except king should live in forest for having such non-ambitious thoughts?

      Your statement –“After Pandavas’ Ashwamedh Yagya, Pandavas won the whole India, so after that no king attacked other king because of Pandavas dominance, hence peace prevailed over whole India for generations…..”

      My answer – I beg to differ and would call this as EXCUSE because there was hardly any strong kingdom left over after Kurukshetra war which could pose the kind of problem Jarasandh could pose. This is why Pandavas Rajsuya yaga could happen only after his death and not prior to that. In fact he was killed so that they could initiate the yaga process.

      Your statement – “On the contrary, during Bhishma’s reign, his own King(Chitrangad) got killed by an external king & Bhishma could not safeguard his borders fron gandharvas & Nagas, so this clearly shows the inabilities of Bhishma….. hence giving excuses of not having an intent or ambition to expand one’s kingdom is not justified here….. If bhishma could not save his own King/border, so how can you expect him to win other kingdoms ??”

      My answer – I think we had already discussed Chitrangandh and Naga issue where both of us do not agree since I do not buy your speculations there either. So I will not repeat the same.

      Your statement-“Drona & Karna were very much eligible to perform their own Rajsuya/Ashamedh Yagya, as they were independent kings…..Although Bhishma was not the king, still he could have performed the Rajsuya/Ashamedh Yagya of Chitrangad/Vichitrvirya/Dhritrashtra…. But the possibility is that even these kings knew that Bhishma was not competant enough to perform such Yagyas, so the fact is that these kings didnt ever ordered Bhishma to go for Digvijay….. While king Pandu had the capabilities, hence he himself went for the Digvijay instead of ordering Bhishma to got for it……Hence qualification and eligibility was no barrier for Bhishma….”

      My answer – Drona was eligible but did not intent to do so as explained above. Karna’s position has already been explained above. Angdesh was part of Hastinapur hence no absolute sovereignty. For Bhishma I have to say again that you are assuming things.

      Your statement –“You have given this CARETAKER excuse umpteen times…. Do you mean to say that Bhishma was just there to spoon feed Chitrangad/Vichitrvirya/Dhritrashtra by making him sit on his lap ?? …. On the contrary, if had Bhishma been the king then his life would have been more precious then just being the caretaker…. Look at Pandavas, on both Rajsuya/Ashamedh Yagya, they didnt allow Yudi to take part in it because the life of Yudi was more precious than remaining 4 Pandavas……”

      My answer – This is the problem while dealing with you. When some explanation or reasoning is given for other characters you call them excuses? You only tell me what was Bhishma if not caretaker? Are you telling me that one fine day he should have reminded himself that I am the best so let me perform certain yaga and go on a war spree whether my kings ask or approve of it or not. Or else Sachin would find me spoon feeding these stupid kings…if he was spoon-feeding kings how could Pandu become Samrat? Now you will accuse me that I am getting furious.

      Your statement-”But he even failed in this goal, because an external king(Gandharva) came & killed Bhishma’s king Chitrangad & Bhishma could do nothing…. Bhishma at best could only produce more kings with the help of the sperms of Vyas…..”

      My answer – Keeping a goal does not mean that it will always be achieved, Sachin. I have repeated same things again and again. What if Bhishma killed Ganharava after the death of his brother? Would that killing have given a king to Hastinapur? You even start questioning the destiny of other characters also just to prove your point? It will not help you.

      Your statement-”THen why did Drona kept half of Drupad’s kingdom ??”

      My answer – If your speculation is correct then why not the whole kingdom?

      Your statement-”KMG does not support your view….”

      My answer – KMG does not say that Drona started teaching princes of Hastinapur from their childhood? Then please show me from KMG that Drona taught grown up adult princes only.

      Your statement-”This is it…. THis is what i was talking about you Sanjay…. Firstly, you havent read the MB in detail…. Secondly, you dont know the meanings of Rajsuya/Ashamedh Yagya…. But still you tried to give your own funny conclusions based on your hypothetical thoughts….. I had told you previously to be carefull what you claim in this blog, because if you claim such funny conclusions then mockery of your opinions are bound to be made here… after which you get furious ….. Above conclusion of yours is really making me laugh now…..”

      My answer – No..no…please do not laugh. Instead tell me what was the difference in the objectives of both these yagas if not to establish supremacy over the contemporary kings? In one yaga kings remained sovereign and in other yaga they did not but they had someone to look upto in either case. If Pandavas were so mighty then Ashvamedha yaga should have been performed before Kurukshetra war. Even Rama did Ashvamedha yaga after winning over Lanka. It means it was actually done once all your contemporaries are out of contention and the new world order needed a leader king. That is why no sovereignty in this yaga. On the other side Rajsuya yaga was like “live and let live but I will take care of you”. Now you may call this as MIGHT someone else may call it “PAID SERVICES”. The later finds more logic because Pandavs were paid tributes (a fact from MB). In this context Dwarika deputed or accepted Pandavas as their “caretaker”. If you still differ then please share your views and we will laugh together. Promise I will not feel frustrated (not furious) this time.

      Your statement –“Firstly Karna did Vaishnav-Yagya for Duryo, in which Karna DID NOT win any kingdom, but he only collected tax from a limited number of kingdoms of his choice(not all)… So this DID NOT estabilish Duryo as the Samraat….. This yagya was performed only to increase your treasury & to estabilish your superiority over a limited kingdoms….. Even Pandavas performed such conquests just after Yudi was made the Yuvraaj of Hastinapur(before Lakshgruh)…. Hence significance of such Vaishna Yagyas was not much…”

      My answer – Karna Parva, section 8 (though posted just two days back only)
      “He had subjugated many invincible and mighty foes–the Gandharas, the Madrakas, the Matsyas, the Trigartas, the Tanganas, the Khasas, the Pancalas, the Videhas, the Kulindas, the Kasi-kosalas, the Suhmas, the Angas, the Nishadhas, the Pundras, the Kichakas, the Vatsas, the Kalingas, the Taralas, the Asmakas, and the Rishikas. Subjugating all these brave races, by means of his keen and whetted arrows equipped with kanka feathers, that foremost of car-warriors, Radha’s son, had caused all of them to pay tribute to us for the aggrandizement of Duryodhana.”
      Subjugation would mean the same for Pandavas and Karna. According to you he was collecting tax for his yaga then why use his force and might for a charity or noble cause? And even if he did so then why give it all “for the aggrandizement of Duryodhana.? So either way he was neither incapable nor ambitious to reign supreme. If you still disagree then blame it on your favourite KMG.

      Your statement –“In Rajsuya Yagya of Pandavas, they DID NOT win any kingdom, but they subjugated “ALL” the kings of India, estabilishing Indraprasth as the strongest kingdom of India & estabilishing Yudi as a Samraat…. So although all the other kings had to follow the orders of Samraat king, still they DID NOT lose the soveriegnity of their kingdoms……In Ashwamedh Yagya of Pandavas, Pandavas WON all the Kingdoms of India & all the kings just became the nominal kings of their respective kingdoms as they lost their soveriegnity as well…..”
      My answer – Already replied above.

      Your statement –“In Dyuta, Yudi just lost the Indraprasth to Duryo, so it didnt make Duryo or Dhritrashtra as a Samraat, because a post like Samraat is non transferable…. E.g if Yudi had given his kingdom to his son Prativindhya, then Prativindhya would not have become a Samraat automatically…. Because for becoming a Samraat, Prativindhya had to perform his own Rajsuya Yagya after the death of Yudi…. That is why the Brahmanas barred Duryo for performing Rajsuya Yagya, because Yudi was still alive at that time, & so there cant be 2 Samraat’s at a time… So for making himself a Samraat, the only options left for Duryo was to kill Yudi & then perform his own Rajsuya Yagya, which was not possible for Duryo…. Hence he chose an alternative to perfrom Vaishnava Yagya so as to satisfy his thirst of popularity…..I hope you have understood by now that every Yagya had different significance & different output……..”

      My answer – I agree with you that Samrat title is non-transferrable. Since Yudi became Duryo’s Daas Yudi’s achievements also came under the preview of his master was my intent. Now sovereign kings under Yudi could always question Duryo for acting like Samrat but they cannot ask Yudi to do anything against Duryo.

      Your statement –“Whole Kaurava army could not stand in front of a lone armyless Arjun for few hours in Viraat war, so do you they had a chance to survive for long agaist a full fledged Pandava army(which never ever faced a defeat)… ??”

      My answer – that is the whole point. If Arjun could do it on that occasion why not same in Kurukshetra war? What was stopping him?

      Your statement – “Arjun let Bhishma survive for 10 days & Duryo was always hiding behind Bhishma, so war continued for 10 day…. After this, Arjun never attempted to kill Drona, so Pandavas eliminated him by other strategy, which took them another 5 days…. Total 15 days…. After this, Arjun still had emotional barrier for Kripa/Ashwatthama, but they wiped out remaining Kuru amy in next 2 days…. on 18th day Duryo was alone, so he Ran away…..”

      My answer – Agreed but the question is still the same why not use sammohan astra to do all this and finish off everything within few hours or at least in few days?

      Your statement-”Wake up from your dreamy world of Arjuna’s hatered Sanjay….. Arjun repeated the Viraat performance on 14th day, where he single-handedly broke the Kamal-Vhiew of Drona & defeated almost whole Kuru army & Whole Kuru army could not stop Arjun from killing Jaydrath just for a day……”

      My answer – Sachin this is another problem while dealing with you. If Arjun’s actions are questioned you accuse me of hating him….having said that the question is still same why not repeat the same feat to finish off war early? Killing one person over 14 days and that too the one whom he neither loved nor respected does not support your argument.

      Your statement-”Very non-practical thinking…. We had discussed previously & had come to a consensus that it was not possible for Pandavas to kill 100 Kauravas without killing people like Bhishma/Drona… Even Smartboy agreed to it….”

      My answer – What non-practical? this what Arjun did in Virat war. Did he or did he not? …..Okay chalo I surrender on this though my comment was based on your contradictory statements. But in a way you agree that Bhishma/Drona had to be removed to achieve killing of 100 Kauravas na? Smarty cheer up man! Sachin has given you due respect.

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  28. friends,
    did karna have pashupatastra? or is it another error of KMG.
    karna parva section 60
    krishna to arjun
    Yonder Karna urges forward the mighty car-warriors of the Dhartarashtras towards the son of Pritha with the weapons called Sthunakarna, Indrasjaha and Pasupata, and with clubs and other weapons.

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  29. Thus borne away by these steeds endued with the speed of the wind, the intelligent son of Drona, deeply afflicted with the shafts of Partha, reflecting for some time, wished not to go back and renew the fight with Partha.

    awasthama had face off with arjuna at least 4 times in my counting during karna parva,

    this is call defeat ,without any doubt

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  30. dear anand,

    How were the pandavas? i am unable to find the passages.

    Karna was 8 cubit tall, if all the pandavas also were of the same height.

    than we can imagine how difficult its was for a normal human to fight them.

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    • Smarty,

      One cubit = 20.75 inches.
      Eight cubits = 166 inches = 13.8 feet
      It was not that normal humans were smaller. This was the average height of humans in those days (Dwapar yug)
      Recall my earlier post – Satyug average height 21 cubits (36 feets), Treta yug 14 cubits (24 feets), dwapar 7 cubits (12 feets) and kaliyug i.e. present days 3.5 cubits (6 feets). If kaliyug figure is true so should be the other figures with (+/-) 5% variations here and there. A warrior taking 100’s of arrows during kurukshtera war is possible only with such a huge physical structure. Today’s physical structures cannot accommodate so many arrows in vital parts. Of course no scientific proof only texts…

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    • Krishna is telling Balrama in swayamvar that Yudhishthira is full 4 cubit tall. 4 cubit ~ 20.5×4 . It means Yudhishthira was 6 fts and 10 inches tall. Arjuna, Bhima and Karna were his siblings. I think as Bhima was tallest, his height could be around 8 fts. According to MB Arjuna was 1 Angusth(2 inches) shorter than Bhima. It means he could be around 7 fts and 10 inches. Adi parva says that pandavas were 1 cubit ~ 20.5 inches taller than a average man.

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  31. Sanjay bhai there is a huge doubt regarding who have actually killed bhsima=

    arjuna’s won word= I have never obtained any happiness from thee. It was for thy good, O chief of men, that Bhishma, firmly devoted to truth, himself told thee the means of his death in battle, and was slain by the heroic and high-souled Shikhandi, the son of Drupada, protected by me.

    now except bhisma, everyone said Shikhandhi killed Bhsima. In fact becs of that reason Aswatthama killed shikahandi.

    now either bhisma was lying or arjuna. Now I doubt why would arjuna lie , can his lie last if indeed arjuna have killed bhisma so cleary. Without any doubt.

    Is there any controversy regarding the killers of jayadratha, Karna, drona, ghatokacha.

    karna’s height =He is eight ratnis in stature, one ratni is equal to one cubit.

    what was the height of pandavas.

    anad bhai=

    so far I have found aswatthama too firng aindra weapon among the students of drona. Satyaki got that from arjuna. What happen to the others.

    Talk a lot about drona’s teaching pattern.

    O king, broken into pieces, struck with the thunderbolt. Filled with rage at this, Drona’s son, that great car-warrior, began to cover Vibhatsu, aided by the energy of the aindra weapon. Beholding that shower of arrows spread over the welkin through the aindra weapon, Partha, endued with great activity, O king, taking up his bow gandiva, and fixing on his bowstring a mighty weapon created by Indra, destroyed that aindra-shower of arrows. Having baffled that arrowy shower caused by the aindra weapon, Partha soon covered the car of Drona’s son (with his own arrows). The son of Drona, however, overwhelmed with Partha’s shafts, penetrated through that shower of arrows shot by the son of Pandu, and approaching the latter, invoked a mighty weapon and suddenly pierced Krishna with hundred shafts and Arjuna with three hundred small arrows.

    sachout bhai arjuna indeed back off that particular moment. But it’s a strategy.

    see the problem arjuna have been glorified so much that he appears God before others. While bhimsen others were not by others.

    similar was the case with Karna also. Krishna said karna can unaided by anyone defeat all the asuras and Devas united.

    do you buy that.

    its like devas and daityas knew nothing about fighting.

    Jishnu of infinite energy, replied unto the invincible Yudhishthira of great might, saying, “While battling with the samsaptakas today, Drona’s son who always proceedeth at the head of the Kuru troops, O king, suddenly came before me, shooting shafts that resembled snakes of virulent poison. Beholding my car, of rattle deep as the roar of clouds, all the troops began to encompass it. Slaying full five hundred of those, I then, O foremost of kings, proceeded against Drona’s son. Approaching me, O king, that hero with great resolution rushed against me like a prince of elephants against a lion, and desired to rescue, O monarch, the Kaurava car-warriors that were being slaughtered by me. Then, in that battle, O Bharata, the preceptor’s son, that foremost of heroes among the Kurus, incapable of being made to tremble, began to afflict me and Janardana with whetted shafts resembling poison or fire. While engaged in battle with me, eight carts, each drawn by eight bullocks, carried his hundreds of arrows. He shot them all at me, but like a wind destroying the clouds I destroyed with my shafts that arrowy shower of his. He then shot at me, with skill and force and resolution, thousands of other arrows, all sped from his bow-string stretched to his very ear, even like a black cloud in the season of rains pouring in torrents the water with which it is charged. So quickly did Drona’s son career in that battle that we could not discern from which side, the left or the right, he shot his arrows, nor could we notice when he took up his arrows and when he let them off. Indeed, the bow of Drona’s son was seen by us to be incessantly drawn to a circle. At last, the son of Drona pierced me with five whetted arrows and Vasudeva also with five whetted arrows. Within the twinkling of an eye, however, I afflicted him with the force of thunderbolts. Exceedingly afflicted with those shafts sped by me, he soon assumed the form of a porcupine. All his limbs became bathed in blood. Beholding his troops, those foremost of warriors all covered with blood and overwhelmed by me, he then entered the car-division of the Suta’s son.

    SEEING THE TROOPS OVERWHELMED BY ME IN BATTLE, AND STRUCK WITH FEAR, AND BEHOLDING THE ELEPHANTS AND STEEDS FLYING AWAY, THAT GRINDER (OF HOSTILE HOSTS), VIZ., KARNA APPROACHED ME QUICKLY WITH FIFTY GREAT CARWARRIORS. SLAYING THEM ALL AND AVOIDING KARNA,

    I have quickly come hither for seeing thee. All the Pancalas are afflicted with fear at sight of Karna like kine at the scent of a lion. The Prabhadrakas also, O king, having approached Karna, are like persons that have entered the wide open jaws of Death. Karna has already despatched to Yama’s abode full seventeen hundred of those distressed car-warriors. Indeed, O king, the Suta’s son did not become cheerless till he had a sight of us. Thou hadst first been engaged with Ashvatthama and exceedingly mangled by him. I heard that after that thou wert seen by Karna. O thou of inconceivable feats, I thought that thou must have, O king, been enjoying rest (in the camp), having come away from the cruel Karna. I have seen, O son of Pandu, the great and wonderful (Bhargava) weapon of Karna displayed in the van of battle. There is now no other warrior among the Srinjayas that is able to resist the mighty car-warrior Karna. Let Sini’s grandson Satyaki and Dhrishtadyumna, O king, be the protectors of my car-wheels. Let the heroic princes Yudhamanyu and Uttamauja protect my rear. O thou of great glory, encountering that heroic and invincible car-warrior, viz., the Suta’s son, staying in the hostile army, like Sakra encountering Vritra, O foremost of kings, I will, O Bharata, fight with the Suta’s son if he can be found in this battle today. Come and behold me and the Suta’s son contending with each other in battle for victory. There, the Prabhadrakas are rushing towards the face of a mighty bull. There, O Bharata, 6,000 princes are sacrificing themselves in battle today, for the sake of heaven. If, putting forth my strength, I do not, O king, slay Karna today with all his relatives while engaged in battle with him, then that end will be mine, O lion among kings, which is his that does not accomplish a vow taken by him. I beg of thee, bless me, saying that victory will be mine in battle. Yonder, the Dhartarashtras are about to devour Bhima. I will, O lion among kings, slay the Suta’s son and his troops and all our foes!”‘”

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    • Neither Arjun nor Shikhandi…Bhishma could not bear the sight of catastrophic war for 10 days thanks to his old age and suffered a stroke. Pandavas being modest as ever gave credit to Shikhandi. bhishma out of love for Arjun gave credit to him. So behati ganga mein sab ne haath dho liye aur budao was made to sleep on arrow bed…..Vyas bhi chup hi raha

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  32. guys, Arjuna killed Nivatkavacha alone without any help , did the same at Virat.

    on contrary he needed full back up to kill karna.

    Thus addressed, Vijaya, replied, O bull of Bharata’s race, saying, “I swear by Truth, O king, and by thy grace, by Bhima, O best of men, and by the twins, O lord of the earth, that today I shall slay Karna, in battle, or, being myself slain by him fall down on the earth. Swearing truly, I touch my weapons.” Having said these words unto the king, he addressed Madhava, saying, “Without doubt, O Krishna, I will slay Karna in battle today.

    HIS ANXIETY ALSO BECAME VERY GREAT AS TO HOW HE WOULD ACHIEVE HIS VOW. THE SLAYER OF MADHU THEN, BEHOLDING PARTHA FILLED WITH ANXIETY AS HE PROCEEDED, ADDRESSED THE WIELDER OF GANDIVA AND SAID THESE WORDS.

    I heard that after that thou wert seen by Karna. O thou of inconceivable feats, I thought that thou must have, O king, been enjoying rest (in the camp), having come away from the cruel Karna. I have seen, O son of Pandu, the great and wonderful (Bhargava) weapon of Karna displayed in the van of battle. There is now no other warrior among the Srinjayas that is able to resist the mighty car-warrior Karna. Let Sini’s grandson Satyaki and Dhrishtadyumna, O king, be the protectors of my car-wheels. Let the heroic princes Yudhamanyu and Uttamauja protect my rear. O thou of great glory, encountering that heroic and invincible car-warrior, viz., the Suta’s son, staying in the hostile army, like Sakra encountering Vritra, O foremost of kings, I will, O Bharata, fight with the Suta’s son if he can be found in this battle today.

    guys can you figure out the contradiction, while fighting against nivatkavacha( who were in thousands) arjuna needed no help but to kill karna he needed help.
    I am not saying karna intended to fight alone. But arjuna had record of fighting alone.

    now coming to bhimsen,

    against karna he insisted for a wrestling match , instead of grabbing him , humiliating him. Nobody is saying he should have killed karna that time. But receiving so many abusive words he should have at least humiliated him.

    And arjuna also needed to shoot arrows to drove karna away.

    on the contrary

    THE SON OF PANDU, LEAPING DOWN FROM HIS CAR, AS HE ALONE COULD DO, 1 RUSHED FORWARD WITH GREAT COOLNESS, DESIROUS OF TAKING SUSARMAN’S LIFE. AND DESIROUS OF SEIZING TRIGARTA’S KING ADVANCING TOWARDS HIM, THE MIGHTY BHIMASENA RUSHED IMPETUOUSLY TOWARDS HIM, EVEN LIKE A LION RUSHING AT A SMALL DEER. AND ADVANCING IMPETUOUSLY, THE MIGHTY-ARMED BHIMA SEIZED SUSARMAN BY THE HAIR, AND LIFTING HIM UP IN WRATH, DASHED HIM DOWN ON THE GROUND.

    yes yes ,this is the very treatment I am talking about.

    THEN THY SONS, DURMADA AND DUSHKARNA, MOUNTING ON THE SAME CAR, PIERCED BHIMA WITH SHAFTS. THEN IN THE VERY SIGHT OF KARNA, OF ASWATTHAMAN, OF DURYODHANA, OF KRIPA, OF SOMADATTA, AND OF VALHIKA, THE SON OF PANDU, THAT CHASTISER OF FOES, BY A STAMP OF HIS FOOT, CAUSED THAT CAR OF THE HEROIC DURMADA AND DUSHKARNA TO SINK INTO THE EARTH. FILLED WITH RAGE, BHIMA STRUCK WITH HIS FISTS THOSE MIGHTY AND BRAVE SONS OF THINE, VIZ., DURMADA AND DUSHKARNA, AND CRUSHED THEM THEREWITH AND ROARED ALOUD.

    one more instance . but he abstain from doing such act to Karna. Reason only bhimsen knew.

    Why should we blame Kauravas, could arjuna have survived against bhimsen ?

    just read the passage what I am talking about.

    ” As the mighty Bhima proceeded, the whole forest with its trees and their branches seemed to tremble, in consequence of their clash with his breast. The motion of his thighs raised a wind like unto that which blows during the months of Jyaishtha and Ashadha (May and June). And the mighty Bhima proceeded, making a path for himself, but treading down the trees and creepers before him. In fact, he broke (by the pressure of his body) the large trees and plants, with their flowers and fruits, standing on his way. Even so passeth through the woods breaking down mighty trees, the leader of a herd of elephants, of the age of sixty years, angry and endued with excess of energy, during the season of rut when the liquid juice trickle down the three parts of his body. Indeed, so great was the force WITH WHICH BHIMA ENDUED WITH THE SPEED OF GARUDA OR OF MARUT (THE GOD OF WIND), PROCEEDED THAT THE PANDAVAS SEEMED TO FAINT IN CONSEQUENCE.

    FREQUENTLY SWIMMING ACROSS STREAMS DIFFICULT OF BEING CROSSED, THE PANDAVAS DISGUISED THEMSELVES ON THEIR WAY FROM FEAR OF THE SONS OF DHRITARASHTRA. AND BHIMA CARRIED ON HIS SHOULDER HIS ILLUSTRIOUS MOTHER OF DELICATE SENSIBILITIES ALONG THE UNEVEN BANKS OF RIVERS. TOWARDS THE EVENING, O BULL OF BHARATA’S RACE, BHIMA (BEARING HIS BROTHERS AND MOTHER ON HIS BACK) REACHED A TERRIBLE FOREST WHERE FRUITS AND ROOTS AND WATER WERE SCARCE AND WHICH RESOUNDED WITH THE TERRIBLE CRIES OF BIRDS AND BEASTS.

    just apply human anatomy science, how large bhimsen should be to do such act.

    the pandavas and kunti should be like size of a toddler in front of bhimsen , than only such carrying was possible.

    IS MY DOUBT JUSTIFIED OR NOT.

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  33. Dear Friends,

    Rather than comparing the abilities of Pandavas & Kauravas on the basis of glorifying or descriptive statements, we should compare their overall performances to know the difference between their capabilities…..

    Now, out of all the numerous kingdoms of India, only Pandavas won whole India twice(Rajsuya Yagya & Ashwamedh Yagya) & ruled over whole India for many years….. This proves that Pandavas had something special abilities in them which other kings lacked…..

    Khandavaprasth was a small kingdom & had a small army which Pandavas got after Division, but still Pandavas subjugated whole India within few years of estabilishing their Kingdom… & Yudi became the Samraat….

    After the Dyuta & Forest exile, Pandavas were virtually beggers & had nothing with them, still they won the whole India ultimately…. This fact itself speaks volumes about the capabilities of Pandavas…..

    In MB war, Pandavas had the smaller army, still they won the MB war & dominated this war on most of the days…..

    Pandavas never tasted defeat in any war in which they participated…. This also speaks volumes about the invincibility of Pandavas…..

    On the contrary, just look at Kauravas:

    Bhishma, even though he reached upto Great-Grandfathers age, & even after having a large Kingdom & large army under him, still he never dared to perform a Rajsuya Yagya or Ashwamedh Yagya….. Forget about Rajsuya Yagya or Ashwamedh Yagya, Bhishma couldnt spread his kingdom any further…… Instead, his own Hastinapur boundaries were captured by Gandharvas & Nagas… & Bhishma’s king Chitrangad got killed by an external king, which was a shame on the part of Bhishma capabilities…….

    Duryodhan, even though he had the support of warriors like Bhishma, Drona, Karna etc, still he faced many humiliating defeats all thoughout his life…..

    Karna’s Vaishnav Yagya was creditable, but still Vaishnav Yagya’s siginificance was nowhere near than Rajsuya Yagya & Ashwamedh Yagya, as these Yagyas were more difficult to complete than the Vaishnav Yagya….. ALso, conquests like Vaishnav Yagya, were also performed by kings like Pandu, Bharat etc…..

    Also, Karna’s inability to spread his own kingdom Angdesh & being only subordinate to Duryo, also raises doubts about the capabilities of Karna….. Karna had the option of winning more kingdoms on his abilities & then gifting them to Duryo, so as to return the favour & to be free from Duryo’s debt…. & then Karna could have lived like a free king(although he could still be friends with Duryo) & then Karna could have spread his own kingdom…… But the fact is that Karna could not do so & he remained as a subordinate king to Duryo all his life & followed every order of Duryo…..

    Drona hadnt had the capabilities to take revenge with Drupad on his won abilities, so he came to take the help of Hastinapur & Pandavas did the job for him…. ALso, Drona owned half the kingdom of Drupad(which was won by Pandavas only), still Drona could not spread his kongdom & instead he continued his subordination towards Hastinapur…..

    Jarasandh was the strongest king of India before Pandavas’ rise(because of whose’ fear Yadavas ran away from Mathura, gifting Mathura to Jarasandh & hiding inside a strongly built fort of Dwarika far away from Magadh), but just look at the ease with which Pandavas eliminated Jarasandh, as if it was a child’s play for them…..

    So all these example clearly points towards the extraordinary capabilities of Pandavas, as compared to rest…..

    So there is every reason for us to believe in extraordinary results of Pandavas like Viraat war, Bhima killing Kaurava brothers in minutes, Bhima killing warriors like Jarasandh, Kichaka, Bakasura etc with brute strength…….

    That is why Smart people like Bhishma, Drona, Vidura, Kripa, Dhritrashtra etc always feared Pandavas & hence they always wanted to avoid a war with Pandavas….

    Also, the MB war lasted for 18 day only because of Arjun’s emotional factor(of not willing to kill Bhishma/Drona/Kripa/Ashwatthama etc) & because of Bhima’s vow to kill 100 Kauravas(hence no one else could touch them)…. Otherwise MB war would have been over much earlier…….

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    • Nothing wrong with the theory and speculations but let us see the practicalities of them:

      1. First of all one needs the intent and ambition to expand one’s kingdom which was never shown by Bhishma, Drona and Karna
      2. Second the qualification and eligibility to do so which was another issue with all of them

      In case of Bhishma he was a caretaker and not a king himself so he was neither qualified nor capable to expand Hastinapur on his own will. His focus throughout his life was to ensure there is some king on the throne. If he could renowned his own rightful throne then expecting him to expand the kingdom for make shift arranged kings is immature. Capturing of his land has already been discussed earlier also.

      In case of Drona, he was also not a king himself but Brahmin teacher. His main aim was to earn his livelihood and not expand the kingdom. His choosing Pandavas to avenge his insult by Drupad because of their prowess is incorrect. He became their teacher when they were kids and speculating that they would do the job for him many years later is unforeseen. However, while teaching and seeing his students growing into capable warriors (including Kauravas) might have given him idea of using them for his purpose.

      In case of Karna we should look at the sequence of events to get right perspective. Karna also was not a king but was made a king so expanding the given kingdom sounds little less meaningful. Still he did his Vijay yatra to donate won-over kingdoms to Duryo. This yatra happened after Pandavas Rajsuya yaga. Pandavas gave away their empire to Duryo in dice game post Rajsuya yaga. So Karna had to win over only those kingdoms which were not part of Rajsuya yaga, I believe. The kingdoms won over during Rajsuya yaga automatically came under Duryo after dice game. So in a way Karna completed Pandavas Rajsuya yaga. In fact the purpose of all these yagas was to subjugate kings and their kingdoms by making them accept the supremacy of the yaga performer so how could either of them supersede the importance of other yagas is beyond my understanding. Yes performing rituals and titles earned could differ like use of horse in ashvamedha yaga but not the outcome.

      It was only Duryo who had the eligibility to expand his kingdom once he could become full-fledged king himself. However he also lacked such an ambition which was limited to capturing of Indraprastha only.

      Having explained the factual practicalities on the part of these gentlemen, one must accept that Pandavas did far better in terms of proving their prowess. By advise or mentorship or with somebody’s help or on their own is another story.

      The statements –

      “So there is every reason for us to believe in extraordinary results of Pandavas like Viraat war, Bhima killing Kaurava brothers in minutes, Bhima killing warriors like Jarasandh, Kichaka, Bakasura etc with brute strength…….”

      And

      “Also, the MB war lasted for 18 day only because of Arjun’s emotional factor(of not willing to kill Bhishma/Drona/Kripa/Ashwatthama etc) & because of Bhima’s vow to kill 100 Kauravas(hence no one else could touch them)…. Otherwise MB war would have been over much earlier…….”

      Comment – In context of Bheema both statements are contradictory. Similarly on the emotional ground war could get delayed by 10 days till Bhishma was subdued by Arjun. Rest three were neither killed nor subdued by Arjun for next eight days. So thinking that Pandavas were mighty enough to finish war in few minutes or days is little exaggeration. I recall Subramanyam’s post if such a possibility was ever there then Pandavas would have been making strategy on how to prolong the war next day and not how to finish the war at the earliest. Since Virat war feat was never repeated by Arjun it is also open to scrutiny and all sorts of reactions. Jarasandh, Kichak, Hidimb and Bakasura feats actually puts Bheema in tough contest with Arjun as the greatest warrior hands down.

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      • Arjunas emotion being the criteria then war ending quickly without any heavy losses makes more sense rather than prolonging the agony. Simple formula repeat his virat yudha performance alienate duryodhana dushasana for yudha with bhima. Kill karna within minutes sahadeva kills shakuni. Bheeshma drona ashwatthama kripa and entire other kuru army dozing off under sammohana. Wake up and live happily ever after. Point proven by virat yudha result. Arjuna did not kill anyone at virata respects bheeshma etc does not want to kill brothers duryodhana and company as well. No Krishna to give gita updesh and force him to fight to kill. Result within half a day war ended. Arjuna victorious.

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        • The best strategy I must say saving everybody’s time, energy, love, respect, emotions, weapons and of course few desireable lives!

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          • Unless of course the virat yudh is a glorious nonsense and others like karna ashwatthama bheeshma drona were as good as arjuna.

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  34. guys did yudi put upa-pandavas at stake at the dice game?

    i got some info on the net that upa-pandavas were already made king of different kingdoms.

    our first belief was that santanu was elder than Bahlika , but it was the opposite. Bahlika ruled his maternal uncle kingdom.

    bhimsen could break various chariots , could dash every opponent with slight fault on the ground as we can read from my previous posts .but he did not try to do that with karna, instead he started fleeing

    thats the part that is bothering me all these years.

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  35. It was not easy to overpower Bhima, Satyaki, Yudhishthira, Dristidyumna etc with common astras. Even Yudi was having weapons like Brahmastra, Indrastra and Mahendrastra. Mahendrastra was very similar to Bhargavastra. Drona tried his best but he couldn’t overpower Yudhishthira on 14th and Dristidyumna on 15th day with the help of normal astras. It is said that Drona’s high astras refused to appear then. But I think he had given two of his best astras(Brahmshir and Narayana) to his son Ashvatthama and he was not having those weapon with him. Otherwise he would have certainly used those weapons at Dristidyumna.

    Karna did not use his most powerful astra even on Satyaki, Abhimanyu and Dristidyumna before 15th day . Why ? It means he had saved those astras only for difficult times only when he had no other way left to save himself. He used Vasvi at Ghatokacha only when there was a threat to his life. These astras were rare and he didn’t want to waste them. But on 17th day when there was a do or die situation for him he fired his Brahmastra and Bhargavastra at pandavas led by Bhima, Satyaki, Dristidyumna, Nakula and Sahdeva.

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    • The statement – “It is said that Drona’s high astras refused to appear then” sounds supernatural but I agree that astras were invoked (made to appear) and were not stored like stock piles in the chariots.

      The statement –“ Karna did not use his most powerful astra even on Satyaki, Abhimanyu and Dristidyumna before 15th day . Why ? It means he had saved those astras only for difficult times only when he had no other way left to save himself. He used Vasvi at Ghatokacha only when there was a threat to his life.”

      My response – It was so because Drona was leading the charge till then. Vasavi was not to save himself but to kill his opponent by using it just for once. His main opponent was Arjun so we are forced to conclude that it was kept for Arjun only. Vasavi used on Ghatotkach was not to save his life but to save destruction of Kaurava army by the hands of Ghatotkach.

      My stance on the weapons:-
      o These were earned and were invoked by mantras for which warrior had to qualify and remember their use.
      o The use was judicious and not by indiscrimination which means warrior was supposed to be a responsible person.
      o Their use also checked the balance of nature and used the natural forces to get them activated and in case there was a threat to nature such weapons used to get either ineffective or nullified by more potent weapons or mediations. Even the deities (concerned forces of nature) used to stop supporting their activeness in such a case.
      o Last but not the least their use was based on certain code of conduct (dharma) which was always adhered to. This kept check and balances on maintaining order.
      If we see all the events where such weapons were used one can find that all results were within these doctrines of weapons science.

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  36. Yaar smartboy, It is true that all sons of Kunti were physically stronger and mightier than an average warrior. Even Yudhisthira has been described as having the body like a lion and full four cubit tall. But we can not underestimate all kaurava brothers. Some of them were really good warriors.

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  37. Dear Dabangg,

    In my view not even Brahmastra was not a WMD. How can then I consider Agni astra as a WMD ? ha ha ha…It was Subrahmanya aka Yuvasamrat who said that Ashvatthama’s Agni astra was a WMD.

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  38. Kauravas were physically very weak cant be compared to any Kunti’ sons. duryodhana mace fight was more about skill and skill only. he could not shake bhimsen even once while shalya made bhimsen unconscious one time.

    he was down with only one blow of bhimsen.

    bhimsen as a kid used to man handle all the hundred kauravas together. this couldn’t be possible if duryo was 75% of bhimsen strength.

    duryodhana failed to lift the bow at draupadi swaymavar, was dragged by Rukma once if i remember correctly, was brutally dragged by ghandharvas.

    my opinion as they were test tube babies they lacked the physical strength of a true warrior.

    i want to know your opinions in this.

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    • they way he was glorified in shalya parva and balrama krishna making his status as a gadadhar quite clear ( gada is a strength oriented weapon ). Its food for thought that was he that weak. bhagwaan aisi weakness sub ko de. Please dont talk about gandharvas. when bandits can make arjuna cut a sorry figure same gandharvas not in dvandwa yudha but in mob attack can make a weaponed karna retreat then them doing some manhandling with duryodhana IMHO does not really proove duryodhana weak.

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  39. Yeh bhimsen kis Chakki ka atta khata tha? Or Kauravas kis Chakki ke atta khaate the?

    dear anand bhai , just read this lines do you anymore want to compare kauravas with bhimsen.

    THE SON OF PANDU, THAT CHASTISER OF FOES, BY A STAMP OF HIS FOOT, CAUSED THAT CAR OF THE HEROIC DURMADA AND DUSHKARNA TO SINK INTO THE EARTH. FILLED WITH RAGE, BHIMA STRUCK WITH HIS FISTS THOSE MIGHTY AND BRAVE SONS OF THINE, VIZ., DURMADA AND DUSHKARNA, AND CRUSHED THEM THEREWITH AND ROARED ALOUD.

    i

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