7,826 thoughts on “Greatest Warrior of All Time

  1. I am not following this debate but seem to agree with the fact that drona could not produce another great warrior apart from Arjuna. Hence credit to arjuna not drona. After all bhima and everyone else were nalla warriors. Arjuna just about as good as Karna. Where as Parshurama produced three greats Bheesma Drona Karna. So clearly Parshurama was the greatest guru

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    1. True but Drona was already trained by Bharadwaja and Agnivesa, similarly Karna was already trained by Drona. Bhishma also received instructions from Vasista and Brihaspathi. Arjuna also had other gurus but there is at least one great warrior Aswathama produced entirely by Drona, but there is no great warrior produced entirely by Parashurama.

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      1. Drona being the bone of contention drupad drona both trained by Aginvesha. Drona further trained by Parshurama was the key that drone surged ahead of Drupad. Drona vs Drupad and Drupad RIP. Karna was far from satisfied by Drona. he went to parshurama on the drona inferior note.

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  2. @ Sachin,

    The extraction of ball from the well clearly proves that Arjuna was just another ordinary prince under Kripa. This solidly establishes that without Drona’s mentoring Arjuna would never have become the greatest warrior.

    If Arjuna was so naturally talented that he can become great under any guru, why did he not get the simple idea of extracting a ball from a well by simple arrows even when his age was 15??

    I might ask another important question at this stage. When Arjuna saw Ekalavya’s skill, why did he complain to Drona about Drona’s promise? Even if Drona gave greater lessons to Ekalavya, why should it worry Arjuna? He can become the great with or without Drona’s lessons. Similarly what was Arjun’s worry when Drona was giving superior education to Aswathama? The answer is simple. Arjuna knew very well that without Drona’s instructions, he cannot become great by himself. That’s why he was disturbed in Ekalavya’s and Aswa’s case.

    If Arjuna alone has credit for both Arjun award and Dronacharya award, the awards should have been Arjuna award and Arjun-teacher award. And why only Dronacharya award? Why no kripacharya award/Indra award/Rudra award as all of them were Arjun’s teachers? How would you react if I say that Drona alone deserves credit for both Arjun and Dronacharya awards? Give each character his due.

    Drona did not give complete education to Arjuna, fine but did devas give him complete education? Even after learning from Indra and Rudra, Arjun’s knowledge is still incomplete. This itself proves that knowledge is infinite. No one can complete his education ever as there will always be something left to master. Drona’s duty is only to teach that much to Arjuna by which he will become the best. And best by no means implies invincibility. If Arjuna-Bhishma have 10 duels, if Bhishma wins 4 and Arjuna wins 6, then Arjuna can be said better than Bhishma. There is no rule that Arjuna has to win all the wars at all times to be called the best.

    Further, how can you expect Drona to spoon feed Arjuna throughout his life? Even if Drona does that, Arjuna will not become the best because a warrior has to continuously upgrade himself. The responsibility of this upgradation is Arjuna’s and not Drona’s. Drona has placed Arjuna in no. 1 position. It is Arjuna’s sole responsibility to maintain that position.

    Regarding Narayanastra, even if Drona gave it to him, what about Bhargavastra and other weapons which even Drona did not know? By teaching superior archery, superior vyuhas, superior mantras for kavach and superior Brahmastras and Brahmashiras, Drona did his duty.

    And what about Arjuna’s war with bhills towards the end of Mahabharat? Now, will you comment that Drona did not perfectly teach Arjuna on how to fight with bhills?

    Redgarding satyaki and others, can you say that after learning from Arjuna, Satyaki’s knowledge is complete? At this stage, if Satyaki has an offer from Indra/Rudra for further studies, will he not go? That’s my point, continuous upgradation. After learning from balarama, if their is another teacher of mace, Bhima/Duryo have to learn from them also.

    Your Nivatakavachas point is irrevelant because Drona promised to make Arjuna the best among men and not best among gods and asuras. I think Nivatakavachas are killed by Vajra.

    Narayanastra killed pandava soldiers only before they bowed to the weapon. There is another weapon of Agni shot by Aswathama immediately after Narayanastra which burnt alive 1 akshohini of pandava soldiers. But Arjuna neutralized it with his Brahmastra, given by Drona. So, it was Arjuna’s delay in launching Brahmastra that killed pandavas. Now, will you say that even this is Drona’s fault as while giving Brahmastra, Drona did not teach Arjuna that he should immediately launch it and not delay ???

    For me, Sauptika parva is more important than Adi parva as Adi parva only contains summary while Sauptika parva contains detailed story. Every fact cannot be covered in a summary. Regarding supernatural, I think there is no consensus among us about this, so you cannot use this theory at this stage.

    When I explained the reason of Drona’s behaviour (in broad-narrow vessel and night fighting) using my theories, you said that they are not mentioned in KMG. Now you have presented your theories that Drona did so as he did not want Arjuna to learn superior methods/night fighting. So, now it is your turn to quote the lines from KMG which say exactly this – that Drona did not want Arjuna to learn superior methods/night war.

    Further, I also request you to quote those lines which say that Drona himself gave Narayanastra to Aswathama.

    It is Bhishma/Dhritarastra who have to decide whether they are betrayed or not. They knew the education of Arjuna, Aswathama and Duryodhana, Satyaki and Dhristadyumna, Karna and Ekalavya and all other disciples of Drona. With knowledge of all this, if they were happy and satisfied to have Drona as the royal preceptor, who are we to say that Drona betrayed them??

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    1. This ai Aswathama’s agni weapon which killed 1 akshohini pandava soldiers before it was neutralized by Arjuna’s Brahmastra.

      The valiant Aswatthaman, then, staying resolutely on his car, touched water and invoked the Agneya weapon incapable of being resisted by the very gods. Aiming at all his visible and invisible foes, the preceptor’s son, that slayer of hostile heroes, inspired with mantras a blazing shaft possessed of the effulgence of a smokeless fire, and let it off on all sides, filled with rage. Dense showers of arrows then issued from it in the welkin. Endued with fiery flames, those arrows encompassed Partha on all sides. Meteors flashed down from the firmament. A thick gloom suddenly shrouded the (Pandava) host. All the points of the compass also were enveloped by that darkness. Rakshasas and Pisachas, crowding together, uttered fierce cries. Inauspicious winds began to blow. The sun himself no longer gave any heat. Ravens fiercely croaked on all sides. Clouds roared in the welkin, showering blood. Birds and beasts and kine, and Munis of high vows and souls under complete control, became exceedingly uneasy. The very elements seemed to be perturbed. The sun seemed to turn. The universe, scorched with heat, seemed to be in a fever. The elephants and other creatures of the land, scorched by the energy of that weapon, ran in fright, breathing heavily and desirous of protection against that terrible force. The very waters heated, the creatures residing in that element, O Bharata, became exceedingly uneasy and seemed to burn. From all the points of the compass, cardinal and subsidiary, from the firmament and the very earth, showers of sharp and fierce arrows fell and issued with the impetuosity of Garuda or the wind. Struck and burnt by those shafts of Aswatthaman that were all endued with the impetuosity of the thunder, the hostile warriors fell down like trees burnt down by a raging fire. Huge elephants, burnt by that weapon, fell down on the earth all around, uttering fierce cries loud as the rumblings of the clouds. Other huge elephants, scorched by that fire, ran hither and thither, and roared aloud in fear, as if in the midst of a forest conflagration. The steeds, O king, and the cars also, burnt by the energy of that weapon, looked, O sire, like the tops of trees burnt in a forest-fire. Thousands of cars fell down on all sides. Indeed, O Bharata, it seemed that the divine lord Agni burnt the (Pandava) host in that battle, like the Samvarta fire consuming everything at the end of the Yuga.

      ‘Beholding the Pandava army thus burning in that dreadful battle, thy soldiers, O king, filled with joy, uttered leonine shouts. Indeed, the combatants, desirous of victory and filled with joy, speedily blew thousands of trumpets, O Bharata, of diverse kinds. Darkness having enveloped

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      the world during that fierce battle, the entire Pandava army, with Savyasachin, the son of Panda, could not be seen. We had never before, O king, heard of or seen the like of that weapon which Drona’s son created in wrath on that occasion. Then Arjuna, O king, invoked into existence the Brahma weapon, capable of baffling every other weapon, as ordained by the Lotus-born (Brahma) himself. Within a moment that darkness was dispelled, cool winds began to blow, and all the points of the compass became clear and bright. We then beheld a wonderful sight, viz., a full Akshauhini (of the Pandava troops) laid low. Burnt by the energy of Aswatthaman’s weapon, the forms of the slain could not be distinguished.

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  3. @ Mr Invincible,

    Your statement-“The incident of extracting ball from a well proves the difference between Drona and Kripa(or anyother teacher)..Let us compare the 2 incidents.(ball extraction and shooting bird’s eye)”

    My ans- Pretty hollow logic….. it only proves that Drona was a better teacher than Kripa…. it still does not prove that Arjun became best ONLY DUE to Drona……

    Your statement-“So, conclusion is even Drona cannot turn other princes into great warriors.”

    My ans- Well you said it yourself…. If Drona had been the SOLE reason for Arjun being best, then Drona would have produced more than 1 Arjun in his school….. But he could not…. But the fact is that it was Arjun’s talent & hardwork, because of which he became the best…..

    Your statement-“Similarly even Arjuna cannot become a great warrior under Kripa or any other teacher.”

    My ans- Hypothetical & baseless claim….. Since Arjun was naturally talented & hardworking, so he would have become the best under any teacher……

    Your statement-“Drona needs Arjuna and Arjuna also needs Drona. Hence both deserve their respective awards.”

    My ans- Sorry, i dont agree with your opinion….. today, Arjun Award is given to the best student & Dronacharya award is created for Best teacher ONLY Because Drona was the teacher of Best student-Arjun…..

    Your statement-“Drona never asked Arjuna to go to Devlok to collect more weapons. It is Arjun’s own decision based on Vyasa’s recommendations.”

    My ans- Invalid arguement….. Drona did not give complete education to Arjun hence he was forced to go to devas to complete his education….. Drona did not give complete education to Bhima/Duryo, hence they were forced to go to Balaram to complete their education of Mace fight….
    Satyaki was also the student of Drona, but still Satyaki learned about additional celestial weapons from Arjun….. Now why would all these Students of so-called Best teacher-Drona required to learn from other gurus ????? Answer is simple….. Drona was not the best teacher & he COULD NOT give them 100% knowledge…..

    Your statement-“Drona promised that he will make Arjun as the greatest warrior. And by the time Arjuna finished his education under Drona and received Brahmashira also, he was already the best warrior. Proof is Gurudakshina war, war with Angaraparna, Draupadi swayamwar, Rajasuya campaign, and so on”

    My ans- Well, your given examples themselves prove my point….. Drona gave the basic education of conventional warfare like Bows/arrows/mace/swords etc to all his students(which could have been given by any other guru), but only Arjun excelled because of his OWN natural talent & hardwork… So if some other guru had given the same basic education, then Arjun would have excelled their as well…… But in the knowledge of Celestial weapons, Drona did partiality with Arjun, by not teaching him about Narayastra, Night fighting etc.,….. Now, when Arjun went to Devlok, Indra request him to defeat the Nivatkavach & regain his lost land, & Arjun could only defeat them with the Help of Pashupatastra(given by Indra)…. Had Indra not given arjun additional knowledge(of Pashupatastra) then may be Arun would have failed in his mission….. So would you have then called Arjun as the best warrior who lost to Nivatkavach ????

    Your statement-“Regarding Narayanastra, what would Arjuna have done if he also had Narayanastra? Would he have shot it in return against Aswa’s Narayanastra? It would only bring mass destruction of both armies. If Arjuna was interested in mass destruction, he still had the option of launching Brahmashira on Narayanastra. But Arjuna had a better alternative. He could just bow to the weapon for a few minutes which is far better than mass destruction. The same applies to Bhargavastra.”

    My ans- Invalid & baseless point….. who said that collision of 2 Narayanastra would cause mass destruction ?? Narayanastra of Aswa still killed many foot soldiers before Pandavas could realise how to avoid it….. And the point is that best warrior-Arjun could not save his army from destruction by Narayanastra….. Who is to blame for this ?? Offcourse Drona’s partiality…..

    Your statement-“However Brahmashira is different. You can’t escape it by just bowing to it. Infact, Pandavas allowed Aswa’s Brahmashir to kill unborn Parikshit because that was the only way to avoid mass destruction. So, this proves Brahmashira was more powerful than Narayanastra etc.”

    My ans- Well if you have read the older discussions in this blog then you would not have raised this point….. firstly, Brahmashira killing unborn Parikshit inside Uttara’s womb is a Supernatural event, hence invalid….. Secondly, Vyas MB itself mentions in Adiparva that Arjuna neutralised Ashwatthama’s Brahmashira with his own Brahmashira :

    KMG quotes:

    “The son of Drona from fear of Bhimasena and impelled by the fates and moved also by anger discharged a celestial weapon saying, ‘This is for the destruction of all the Pandavas’ ; then Krishna saying, ‘This shall not be’, neutralised Aswatthaman’s speech. Then Arjuna neutralised that weapon by one of his own. Seeing the wicked Aswatthaman’s destructive intentions, Dwaipayana (and Krishna) pronounced curses on him which the latter returned. Pandava then
    deprived the mighty warrior-in-chariot Aswatthaman, of the jewel on his head, and became exceedingly glad, and, boastful of their success, made a present of it to the sorrowing Draupadi.”
    —————————–

    Now, this is a practical event, hence believable….. Firther this also nullifies the theory of 2 hig power celestial weapons colliding & causing mass destruction…..

    Your statement-“Mahabharata only mentions that Drona wanted Aswa to return early to teach him superior methods of hurling weapons. This means Aswa had already mastered ordinary methods, so he was being taught the superior methods while other princes were yet to master the ordinary methods. Mahabharata NEVER MENTIONS that Drona did not want Arjuna and others to master these superior methods. If you have found anything like that, please quote.”

    My ans- Sorry buddy, this is your biasedness talking….. MB clearly mentions the DRAMA of Drona giving narrow mouthed pot to Kurus & wide mouthed pot to Aswa SO THAT Ashwattham can return earlier & Drona can teach him several superior methods of using weapons…. Further, Drona told the servants of Ashram never to give Arjun food in the dark, so that Arjun should not get the idea of learning the art of night fight….. Now, if you close your eyes to these facts, then God Bless you & your Baisedness…. I rest my case…..

    And the other obivious facts from Vyas MB which proves the Partiality of Drona is – Drona taught about Narayanastra to Ashwatthama & not to Arjun….. You turning a blind eye to these facts wont change these facts & Drona’s Partiality……

    Your statement-“First, throughout Mahabharata, both Bhishma and Dhritarastra(the bread providers of Drona) were extremely happy with the services of Drona. Can you show just one passage where either of them felt that they were betrayed by Drona?”

    My ans- Non-contextual arguement….. Drona’s betrayal to his bread provider has been shown above clearly…..

    Your statement-“Clouds(Drona) give rain uniformly. If you stand with a small glass, you get only less water. If you stand with a large bucket, you get more water. What is the cloud’s partiality in this?”

    My ans- Well, Vyas Mb does not say that the Cloud(Drona) gave equal rain(Narayanastra, night fighting knowledge) to all…. So your example is Non-contextual….. On the funnier side, the Cloud(Drona) didnt even give equal Pots(to collect water) to all……!!

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  4. Sanjay now I am seeing section of Sachins statement as below
    @ Sanjay,
    Your statement-“Arjun was no doodh ka dhula as we all know his one night stands during luxurious exile, exploitation of drupadi, cousin abudction,”
    My ans- These practices were NOT CONSIDERED as UNETHICAL during MB times…. So stop doing your Kooook-dooo-koooooooon
    My query. So what are we to believe. Pandavas didn’t have the balls to stand up to malpractices those days. Spirit of heropanti or spirit of hijdapanti. Its like I cant stand up for my own wife being exploited its wrong but acceptable according to the current times like sati dowry etc so the english proverb if you cant beat them join them. That’s what separates men from boys. Your conscience says its wrong societyetc may not say it you should have the balls to stand up to a wrong practice. Example Ishwar chandra vidya sagar Raja rammohan roy etc they stood up against wrong practices against woman. Pandavas were clearly not in that league.

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  5. @ Sachin

    The incident of extracting ball from a well proves the difference between Drona and Kripa(or anyother teacher).

    Let us compare the 2 incidents.(ball extraction and shooting bird’s eye)

    In first incident, Kripa was the teacher, all the princes were equally clueless on how to extract the ball from the well. I assume Arjuna was 15 years old because Pandu died on Arjun’s birthday when he turned 14. At this age, one’s I.Q is reasonably developed.

    Although Arjuna was better than other princes in his sharpness, the same could not be brought out by Kripa.

    In second incident, the teacher was Drona. Here all other princes once again failed but Arjuna succeeded. So, Drona was able to bring out the difference between Arjuna and other princes.

    So, conclusion is even Drona cannot turn other princes into great warriors. Similarly even Arjuna cannot become a great warrior under Kripa or any other teacher. So, Drona needs Arjuna and Arjuna also needs Drona. Hence both deserve their respective awards.

    Drona never asked Arjuna to go to Devlok to collect more weapons. It is Arjun’s own decision based on Vyasa’s recommendations.

    Drona promised that he will make Arjun as the greatest warrior. And by the time Arjuna finished his education under Drona and received Brahmashira also, he was already the best warrior. Proof is Gurudakshina war, war with Angaraparna, Draupadi swayamwar, Rajasuya campaign, and so on. In Virat war also, Arjuna had vanquished kurus with his archery alone. Even without sammohana, victory would still have been his. And this archery is taught by Drona. Same with Gandharva war. The Gandharva Angaraparna was terrified by Arjuna’s Agni astra. Here Arjuna explicitly mentioned that he received that weapon from Drona. In Kuruksetra also, all victories achieved by him were due to his archery and occasional Brahmastras once again given by Drona.

    Regarding Narayanastra, what would Arjuna have done if he also had Narayanastra? Would he have shot it in return against Aswa’s Narayanastra? It would only bring mass destruction of both armies. If Arjuna was interested in mass destruction, he still had the option of launching Brahmashira on Narayanastra. But Arjuna had a better alternative. He could just bow to the weapon for a few minutes which is far better than mass destruction. The same applies to Bhargavastra.

    However Brahmashira is different. You can’t escape it by just bowing to it. Infact, Pandavas allowed Aswa’s Brahmashir to kill unborn Parikshit because that was the only way to avoid mass destruction. So, this proves Brahmashira was more powerful than Narayanastra etc.

    For normal battles, Drona gave archery, for special cases where thousands of soldiers have to be killed, Drona gave Brahmastras and finally for any emergency, Drona also gave Brahmashira. So, if Arjuna was still not satisfied, how is it Drona’s fault?

    Mahabharata only mentions that Drona wanted Aswa to return early to teach him superior methods of hurling weapons. This means Aswa had already mastered ordinary methods, so he was being taught the superior methods while other princes were yet to master the ordinary methods. Mahabharata NEVER MENTIONS that Drona did not want Arjuna and others to master these superior methods. If you have found anything like that, please quote.

    Everyone knows that drunken Drive is dangerous for oneself and for others also. However, the two faults you have attached to Drona are non existant.

    First, throughout Mahabharata, both Bhishma and Dhritarastra(the bread providers of Drona) were extremely happy with the services of Drona. Can you show just one passage where either of them felt that they were betrayed by Drona?

    Regarding castiesm, the reasons for Drona’s rejection of both Karna and Ekalavya have been well explained. Regarding other princes, Drona taught them to the best of his ability, however he is no god to transform every disciple of his into a top class maharathi. Clouds(Drona) give rain uniformly. If you stand with a small glass, you get only less water. If you stand with a large bucket, you get more water. What is the cloud’s partiality in this?

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  6. Well below accusations on Karna
    While i proved all the facts about ILL character of Karna….. e.g. Karna being Back-stabber friend, – Not really. Karna sided with duryodhana despite knowing pandavas were his brothers.
    conspirator(Lakshagurh), – Lo kallo baat champ conspirators were pandavas MB battle full of their conspiracy karna activitiy or rather inactivity in lakshgaraha already proven
    Selfish, wife/kids donator, – Incident never happened cant discuss fiction. He spoke pandavas did it wife pimping betting galore.
    Liar, – Yudhi lies to drona well noted.
    Cheater(to Parshuram), – Same as above
    Faticharr, – Bhimas nanga bhikhair status well noted. Followed by arjunas status in front of divyastras.
    No.1 Fekoo, – Almost like yudhi.
    Shameless, Insulting a helpless wome(Draupadi) – Five pandavas burnt nishadha woman and her family.
    c…. Only his Followers like you are making him Salman Khan by CLOSING YOUR EYES…. Yeh misaal bhi khoob raha. Like Salman Khan pandavas did culpable homicide not amounting to murder and hid it.
    Final accusion Even though his acting skills(warrrior talent) was not even equal to Fardin Khan … !! Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…. Well Fardin Khan was better than Harman Baweja ( Pandavas ) Atleast can give hits. Pandavas which divyastra weilding warrior killed on their own steam result = Harman bawejas box office success. Ha ha ha

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  7. Sachin – Ha..ha..ha…. Examples of Polyandry practice being prevalent in MB is already been given….. So WHO CARES WHEN A CHICKEN DOES HIS Koook-dooo-koooooooon….. Ha..ha..ha….Ha..ha..ha….

    Sanjay – No such example available that is why Draupadi’s father and brother objected to it. Waise bhi you again CHICKENED OUT on my point – “You are still due to answer what is your UNCOMFORT in adopting Polyandry?”

    ======

    Sachin – Some special kind of Celestial weapons were acquired by a limited number of people only…. E.g Bhargavastra was possessed by Parshuram(& Karna) & some 6 rishis only… No one else knew the secret of nullifying Bhargavastra….. Same was the case with Narayanstra which was possessed by Drona(& Ashwatthama) only….. Hence Arjun could not get these weapons from Devas…. Same was the case with Arjun’s(Indra’s) Sammohana weapon, in front of which whole Kuru army was clueless…..

    Sanjay – You are still beating around the bush instead of answering simple question “The question was if he went to Devlok to acquire those weapons then why was he still clueless in Kurukshetra?” To help you understand the question let me explain the background which is Arjun had to go to Devas since Drona did not give him all weapons. This means Devas had ALL weapons. Still if Arjun was clueless in Kurukshetra then his visit was as STUPID an idea as your reply to this question. Even if I take your STUPID reply then also Arjun visiting Devas instead of Parasurama or other rishis or Narayana to get weapons they had will again proved to be a STUPID IDEA…!! Hence you FAILED to prove that Arjun visited Devas because Drona did not give him weapons. In fact he did so to get extra weapons which he never had……inspite of visiting devas he was still short of many weapons which proves HE WAS CLUELESS ON WEAPONS EVEN BEFORE KURUKSHETRA….Now try to answer the INTELLIGENT QUESTION….!!
    ================

    Sachin – Ha..ha..ha…. Miyaan just doing your irrelevent Koook-dooo-koooooooon wont prove your point…… I already said previously that Arjun failed to get the Narayanstra from Drona because of PARTALITY of Drona & not because Arjun was not responsible….. And since Arjun was not the student of Parshuram hence he couldnt get the Bhargavastra….. Has Karna told the truth(about his caste) to Parshuram then Karna would not have got ANY WEAPON from Parshuram …..

    Sanjay – Already Punctured above….Drona was partial against low-caste Karna and Eklavya and towards princes Arjun and Duryo. Who stopped Arjun to appease Parausrama or other rishis or Narayana to get those weapons? The reason was simple HE WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO GET THOSE WEAPONS which you have proved yourself…..ha…..ha….ha…..ha….ha…. ha…..ha….ha…..ha….ha…. ha…..ha….ha…..ha….ha…. ha…..ha….ha…..ha….ha….!! LOST KID….

    ===========

    Sachin – Well, i did not see any event of Arjun killing innocents at Khandava….. Can you prove your claim by giving me relevant passages…. Or DONT TALK IN AIR…..

    Sanjay – As expected. You have proved you have read MB with CLOSED EYES…..Read Khandavas episode yourself. I am not here to serve you obvious facts if you do not have brains to understand them…..

    ===========

    Sachin – Punctured claims of a Chicken….. Ha..ha..ha…. Already proved that these practices were considered as ETHICAL during MB…… Krishna karein to raasleela, Arjun karien to character dheela…!! Ha..ha..ha….

    Sanjay – Your UNCOMFORT in polyandry is still not proved so how can it be ETHICAL? When did Krishna share his wife? When did he abduct his cousin sister? When did he lead luxurious life in exile…..?? When did he have one-night stand with women? He married all of them…!! CLOSED EYES….??
    ========

    Sanjay -“So you accept that Drona was CASTIEST when you say, “If you do not find CAST BASED PARTIALITY & partiality of Drona towards his Bread-provider(Hastinapur & Kuru princes) as Censurable, then i dont see any reason to argue on this topic further…..??”

    Sachin – Hao naa bawa…. Aur kitni baar bolu….!!

    Sanjay – So it is on records that Drona was CASTEIST and Sachin has accepted it. This proves my point that Karna and Eklavya were also rejected by him on the basis of Castes…thanks for proving my point!!
    ============
    Sachin – Look in the mirror before doing your Koook-dooo-koooooooon Sanjay miyaan….. You failed to prove all of your baseless accusations on Arjun….. While i proved all the facts about ILL character of Karna….. e.g. Karna being Back-stabber friend, conspirator(Lakshagurh), Selfish, wife/kids donator, Liar, Cheater(to Parshuram), Faticharr, No.1 Fekoo, Shameless, Insulting a helpless wome(Draupadi) etc etc…. Only his Followers like you are making him Salman Khan by CLOSING YOUR EYES…. even though his acting skills(warrrior talent) was not even equal to Fardin Khan … !! Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…

    Sanjay – It has been proved more than once that you read MB with CLOSED EYES….so you cannot prove me wrong by any standards…… Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…!! Tu Superman SALMAN KA FAN….???

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    1. Mr I,

      Hopefully I saved you from Sachin’s further honking by engaging him…..he is dependent on me to stay relevant in this blog…..!

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      1. Ha…Ha….Ha….Ha…. Miyaan jab do bade log baat karre ho to bachhe bich mein bola nahi karte……. Bad manners…. Ha…Ha….Ha….Ha….

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        1. Precisely, why did you barge in when Mr I and were discussing Drona…?? Behave properly to set good example and stop behaving like your IDOL who was CLUELESS everytime he was supposed to be aware…… Ha…Ha….Ha….Ha….!!

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  8. Dear Sanjay,

    Well the chicken is back with his Koook-dooo-koooooooon…. Ha..ha..ha….

    Your statement-“You are still due to answer what is your UNCOMFORT in adopting Polyandry? Till then Koook-dooo-koooooooon…. Koook-dooo-koooooooon ..Koook-dooo-koooooooon ….Drupad and Dhristhdyuman objected to Polyandry. If it was ETHICAL they would not have raised objection….”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha…. Examples of Polyandry practice being prevalent in MB is already been given….. So WHO CARES WHEN A CHICKEN DOES HIS Koook-dooo-koooooooon….. Ha..ha..ha….Ha..ha..ha….

    Your statement-“The question was if he went to Devlok to acquire those weapons then why was he still clueless in Kurukshetra?”

    My ans- Well, an immatur kid like you will not understand that the point of discussion here was “Drona’s partiality towards Arjun”…. So devas had nothing to do with it….. But since you did your Koook-dooo-koooooooon in the middle, so here is the answer:

    Some special kind of Celestial weapons were acquired by a limited number of people only…. E.g Bhargavastra was possessed by Parshuram(& Karna) & some 6 rishis only… No one else knew the secret of nullifying Bhargavastra….. Same was the case with Narayanstra which was possessed by Drona(& Ashwatthama) only….. Hence Arjun could not get these weapons from Devas…. Same was the case with Arjun’s(Indra’s) Sammohana weapon, in front of which whole Kuru army was clueless…..

    Your statement-“proves your CONFESSION that Arjun was CLUELESS in front of celestial weapons. Right? This means he FAILED to earn them. This means neither Narayana nor Drona nor Devas find him RESPONSIBLE enough to give Naryanastra, Bhargavsatra etc.? If not then what was other reason that BEST warrior could not acquire these weapons despite being TALENTED and beggar to so many weapon suppliers…..??”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha…. Miyaan just doing your irrelevent Koook-dooo-koooooooon wont prove your point…… I already said previously that Arjun failed to get the Narayanstra from Drona because of PARTALITY of Drona & not because Arjun was not responsible….. And since Arjun was not the student of Parshuram hence he couldnt get the Bhargavastra….. Has Karna told the truth(about his caste) to Parshuram then Karna would not have got ANY WEAPON from Parshuram …..

    Your statement-“I thought you have read Arjun killing innocents,”

    My ans- Well, i did not see any event of Arjun killing innocents at Khandava….. Can you prove your claim by giving me relevant passages…. Or DONT TALK IN AIR…..

    Your statement-“Draupadi sharing, cousin abduction, his luxurious life during exile and womanizing nature etc in KMG.”

    My ans- Punctured claims of a Chicken….. Ha..ha..ha…. Already proved that these practices were considered as ETHICAL during MB…… Krishna karein to raasleela, Arjun karien to character dheela…!! Ha..ha..ha….

    Your statement-“So you accept that Drona was CASTIEST when you say, “If you do not find CAST BASED PARTIALITY & partiality of Drona towards his Bread-provider(Hastinapur & Kuru princes) as Censurable, then i dont see any reason to argue on this topic further…..??”

    My ans- Hao naa bawa…. Aur kitni baar bolu….!!

    Your statement-“Arjun cannot hide his DARK SIDE and be absolved of his ill-doings.Only his Followers like you are making him Salman Khan by CLOSING YOUR EYES….!!”

    My ans- Look in the mirror before doing your Koook-dooo-koooooooon Sanjay miyaan….. You failed to prove all of your baseless accusations on Arjun….. While i proved all the facts about ILL character of Karna….. e.g. Karna being Back-stabber friend, conspirator(Lakshagurh), Selfish, wife/kids donator, Liar, Cheater(to Parshuram), Faticharr, No.1 Fekoo, Shameless, Insulting a helpless wome(Draupadi) etc etc…. Only his Followers like you are making him Salman Khan by CLOSING YOUR EYES…. even though his acting skills(warrrior talent) was not even equal to Fardin Khan … !! Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha….

    Like

  9. Dear Sachin,

    Though it is between you and Mr I, I found some interesting replies from your side which I am going to address in this blog:

    You claimed Drona did not give all weapons to Arjun which made him go to Devlok to acquire them. On this Mr I had a very intelligent question which you failed to understand as usual. The question was if he went to Devlok to acquire those weapons then why was he still clueless in Kurukshetra? Kindly get the question and answer instead of beating around the bush. DO NOT CHICKEN OUT…!!

    Your statement, “Sorry, invalid exuse….. The best warrior is not supposed to be clueless in front of Narayanastra…. If Drona had obligations of not giving Narayanastra to Arjun, then Drona should not have promised to Make Arjun as the best warrior….. This further shows that Drona made a FAKE promise…….” proves your CONFESSION that Arjun was CLUELESS in front of celestial weapons. Right? This means he FAILED to earn them. This means neither Narayana nor Drona nor Devas find him RESPONSIBLE enough to give Naryanastra, Bhargavsatra etc.? If not then what was other reason that BEST warrior could not acquire these weapons despite being TALENTED and beggar to so many weapon suppliers…..?? DO NOT CHICKEN OUT…!!

    You again came up with HILARIOUS statement, “Well IF YOU DO NOT FIND ANY FAULT WITH DRONA THEN IT DOES NOT MAKE DRONA FAULTLESS….. Because Vyas MB clearly shows the Fault (Partiallity) of drona….. Now if you still turns a blind eye towards the facts of MB then it is your ignorance & biasedness….. It wont make Drona faultless….”. I thought you have read Arjun killing innocents, Draupadi sharing, cousin abduction, his luxurious life during exile and womanizing nature etc in KMG. If so then did you read them with OPEN EYES or CLOSED EYES….?? DO NOT CHICKEN OUT…!!

    So you accept that Drona was CASTIEST when you say, “If you do not find CAST BASED PARTIALITY & partiality of Drona towards his Bread-provider(Hastinapur & Kuru princes) as Censurable, then i dont see any reason to argue on this topic further…..?? DON’T CHICKEN OUT….!!

    Your statement – And e.g. Million of Indian are fans of Salman khan, so it doesnt mean that they all agree that one should drink while driving….. And if you say that you dont find fault in Drunkard driving then you can imagine what would the people think about you….!!

    My answer – Exactly…..similarly being BEST warrior does not mean BEST CHARACTER…..Arjun cannot hide his DARK SIDE and be absolved of his ill-doings. Only his Followers like you are making him Salman Khan by CLOSING YOUR EYES….!!

    Like

  10. Dear Mr Invincible,

    Your statement-“On one side you say that 11-12 year students can pass 12th grade exam and on the other side you say that 11-12 year old Arjun cannot perform ball-grass blade feat. Please clarify your stand.”

    My ans- My point is that Drona may be a better teacher than Kripa, but Arjun did not become best ONLY DUE to Drona….. Ball-grass blade example proves nothing…..

    Your statement-“I am not saying that Arjuna became best only because of Drona, yes he was naturally talented but just as Drona cannot produce another warrior like Arjuna, no other guru can produce a warrior like Arjuna.”

    My ans- Exactly….. Just like Arjun was lucky to have a great teacher like Drona, similarly Drona was lucky to have a student-Arjun who became the best warrior….. But since you accepted the point that “Arjun did not become best ONLY DUE to Drona”, so i dont see any reason to argue any further on this topic……

    Your statement-“Why was Arjuna clueless in kuruksetra even after going to Devlok??? If Drona did not give weapons, it is Drona’s fault. If gods also did not give him weapons, whose fault it is?”

    My ans- Answer is simple….. The fault is still of Drona…. Because DRONA PROMISED ARJUN TO MAKE HIM THE BEST WARRIOR & not the Devas…… It is also Drona’s fault that Arjun had to go to devas for further education, because Drona had not given him all weapons….

    Your statement-“Narayanastra was given by Lord Narayana with the boon that only Drona and Aswa can use it. If Arjuna wants it, he has to perform penance seperately. Except this, all other weapons were shared with Arjuna by Drona.”

    My ans- Sorry, invalid exuse….. The best warrior is not supposed to be clueless in front of Narayanastra…. If Drona had obligations of not giving Narayanastra to Arjun, then Drona should not have promised to Make Arjun as the best warrior….. This further shows that Drona made a FAKE promise…….

    Your statement-“Mahabharata only mentions that Drona gave narrow vessels to princes and wide one to Aswa. The reason IS NOT MENTIONED. Mahabharata only mentions that Drona instructed the cook to not to give food to Arjuna in the dark. Once again the reason IS NOT MENTIONED. So, we have the liberty to imagine the reasons.”

    My ans- Well it is your favouritism towards Drona talking…. And you proved your favouritism here…. The REASON is CLEARLY mentioned in MB that Drona gave narrow vessels to princes and wide one to Aswa so that Ashwattham can return earlier & Drona can teach him several superior methods of using weapons….

    KMG quotes:
    “And while he gave unto every one of his pupils a narrow- mouthed vessel (for fetching water) in order that much time may be spent in filling them, he gave unto his own Aswatthaman a broad- mouthed vessel, so that, filling it quickly, he might return soon enough. And in the intervals so gained, Drona used to instruct his own son in several superior methods (of using weapons).”
    ———————–

    Well if you still CLOSE your eyes to these FACTS OF VYAS MB then it proves your biasedness…..

    Your statement-“Many other battles were taking place simultaneously in the same darkness. And Aswa had already crushed Ghatotkacha’s pride after sunset.”

    My ans- That is the point….. Ashwatthama(who was taught nicely about night battle by Drona) easily crushed Ghatotkach at night(with conventional arrows)… while Karna had to use his best weapon-Vasavi to stop Ghatotkach…..

    Night battles between other Kshatriyas is NON-CONTEXTUAL, because they all were on equal terms(as all were not expert in night fighting)…. Only Rakhshsas(Ghatotkach) were supposed to be expert night fighters…..

    Your statement-“You criticize Arjuna for his behaviour as you find fault with him. I don’t see anything wrong in any of Drona’s actions. Why should I criticize him? And what has it to to with my liking/disliking him? I like only them whose actions I endorse.”

    My ans- Well if you do not find any fault with Drona then it doesnt make Drona faultless….. Because Vyas MB clearly shows the Fault (Partiallity) of drona….. Now if you still turns a blind eye towards the facts of MB then it is your ignorance & biasedness….. It wont make Drona faultless….

    Your statement-“If I find Drona’s actions censurable, why will I like him in the first place?”

    My ans- If you do not find Cast based partiality & partiality of Drona towards his Bread-provider(Hastinapur & Kuru princes) as Censurable, then i dont see any reason to argue on this topic further…..

    And e.g. Million of Indian are fans of Salman khan, so it doesnt mean that they all agree that one should drink while driving….. And if you say that you dont find fault in Drunkard driving then you can imagine what would the people think about you….!!

    Drona was a great teacher, great warrior but it still doesnt justify his Partial behaviour….. You have to accept the plus’ses along with minus’ses…..

    Like

  11. @ Sanjay,

    Your statement-“The statement “I know you like Drona, but justifying every ill deed of your favourite character is not going to do any good to you, it will also make you bad like your favourite if you follow him as it is” is Hilarious especially when it comes from Sachin who has been advocating POLYANDRY as ETHICAL but CHICKENS OUT when it comes to following it in his own life….”

    My ans- Punctured arguement of a Sour loser …. Your Chicken count = 24

    Your statement-“Arjun was no doodh ka dhula as we all know his one night stands during luxurious exile, exploitation of drupadi, cousin abudction,”

    My ans- These practices were NOT CONSIDERED as UNETHICAL during MB times…. So stop doing your Kooook-dooo-koooooooon…..

    Your statement-“killing of innocents, kiling weaponless & defenseless rivals”

    My ans- Utter LIE….. Hence itself punctured…..Prove it from KMG or DONT TALK IN AIR…..

    Like

    1. You are still due to answer what is your UNCOMFORT in adopting Polyandry? Till then you are a SOUR LOSER….I have lost the count of every time YOU CHICKENED OUT on this this….Drupad and Dhristhdyuman objected to Polyandry. If it was ETHICAL they would not have raised objection….

      KMG has prove umpteen times that you failed to understand its many mentions…..So YOU DON’T TALK IN AIR or prove it otherwise….

      HA….HA….HA…..HA….HA….HA….HA….HA….HA…BIG TIME LOSER!

      Like

  12. Dear Sachin

    On one side you say that 11-12 year students can pass 12th grade exam and on the other side you say that 11-12 year old Arjun cannot perform ball-grass blade feat. Please clarify your stand.

    And I might add that extracting a ball from a well by means of succession of arrows is no rocket science. It just requires out of the box thinking. See how Drona reacted

    seeing the princes unsuccessful, and conscious of his own skill, smiled a little, and addressing them said, ‘Shame on your Kshatriya might, and shame also on your skill in arms! You have been born in the race of Bharata! How is it that ye cannot recover the ball (from the bottom of this well)?

    I am not saying that Arjuna became best only because of Drona, yes he was naturally talented but just as Drona cannot produce another warrior like Arjuna, no other guru can produce a warrior like Arjuna.

    You say that Drona did not give all the weapons to Arjun, that’s why he was clueless in kuruksetra. You also say that Arjuna went to Devlok to complete his mastery of weapons as Drona betrayed him. Now answer this question.

    Why was Arjuna clueless in kuruksetra even after going to Devlok??? If Drona did not give weapons, it is Drona’s fault. If gods also did not give him weapons, whose fault it is?

    For your information, Drona did not have Vaishnavastra. Narayanastra was given by Lord Narayana with the boon that only Drona and Aswa can use it. If Arjuna wants it, he has to perform penance seperately. Except this, all other weapons were shared with Arjuna by Drona.

    I agree that my theories are not mentioned by Vyasa MB. But where in Vyasa MB is it mentioned that Drona deceived Arjuna? Where is it mentioned that Drona did not want Arjuna to become the best/better than Aswa?

    Mahabharata only mentions that Drona gave narrow vessels to princes and wide one to Aswa. The reason IS NOT MENTIONED. Mahabharata only mentions that Drona instructed the cook to not to give food to Arjuna in the dark. Once again the reason IS NOT MENTIONED. So, we have the liberty to imagine the reasons.

    It is funny that no one knew the art of night battle. The fact is on 14th night, Karna-Ghatotkacha was not the only duel. Many other battles were taking place simultaneously in the same darkness. And Aswa had already crushed Ghatotkacha’s pride after sunset.

    Drona not giving Brahmashira to Arjuna is another funny claim. May be out of extreme happiness on seeing Lord Shiva, Arjuna forgot which weapon he should ask, so Shiva corrected him by giving Pasupatha instead of Brahmashira which Arjuna already had.

    See the following quotes

    One day, Drona, addressing Arjuna before the assembled Kaurava princes, said, ‘There was a disciple of Agastya in the science of arms called Agnivesa. He was my preceptor and I, his disciple. By ascetic merit I obtained from him a weapon called Brahmasira which could never be futile and which was like unto thunder itself, capable of consuming the whole earth. That weapon, O Bharata, from what I have done, may now pass from disciple to disciple. While imparting it to me, my preceptor said, ‘O son of Bharadwaja, never shouldst thou hurl this weapon at any human being, especially at one who is of poor energy. Thou hast, O hero, obtained that celestial weapon. None else deserveth it. But obey the command of the Rishi (Agnivesa). And, look here, Arjuna, give me now the preceptorial fee in the presence of these thy cousins and relatives.’ When Arjuna, on hearing this, pledged his word that he would give what the preceptor demanded, the latter said, ‘O sinless one, thou must fight with me when I fight with thee.’ And that bull among the Kuru princes thereupon pledged his word unto Drona and touching his feet, went away northward.

    ——————————————————————————————————–

    The following passage further confirms that it is Drona who gave that weapon.

    Vaishampayana said, “At the very outset the mighty-armed hero of Dasharha’s race understood from signs the intention of Drona’s son. Addressing Arjuna, he said, ‘O Arjuna, O son of Pandu, the time is come for the use of that celestial weapon which is in thy memory, knowledge of which was imparted to thee by Drona. For protecting thyself as also

    ——————————————————————————————————–
    Another passage to confirm the same

    The weapon called brahmashira, which that subjugator of hostile towns, Drona, communicated to his son, is capable of consuming the whole world. The illustrious and highly blessed preceptor, that foremost of all wielders of bows, delighted with Dhananjaya, had given him that very weapon. Unable to endure it, his only son then begged it of him.

    ——————————————————————————————————–

    You criticize Arjuna for his behaviour as you find fault with him. I don’t see anything wrong in any of Drona’s actions. Why should I criticize him? And what has it to to with my liking/disliking him? I like only them whose actions I endorse. If I find Drona’s actions censurable, why will I like him in the first place? My stand is uniform, Arjuna is the greatest warrior in mahabharata, Bhishma the most virtuous and Drona the best of Brahmins and Gurus. I never said Drona is greater warrior than Arjun or more virtuous than Bhishma etc. So, I am giving Drona only his due.

    Like

  13. Dear Mr Invincible,

    Your statement-“As an example, look at the first passage above which says that Pandavas including Arjun were receiving lessons from Kripa. But when they were playing with the ball and it fell into well, like other princes, Arjun also was clueless on how to extract it. When Drona extracted it using blades of grass, he was surprised. So, the point is, the best in Arjuna could not be ignited by Kripa, it required Drona.”

    My ans- Pretty superficial point….. your Ball/Grass-blade example proves nothing, because we cannot expect a 11-12 years old Arjun who had just began his education under kripa(or even drona), to perform feats like Ball/Grass-blade….. Even Drona took the test of Bird Eye shooting when Kuru’s education was complete……

    I am not saying that Drona was not a good teacher….. Yes he was a great teacher, but Arjun did not become best ONLY DUE to Drona, BUT Arjun became best because of his OWN talent, perseverence & hard work….. Had drona been the sole reason for this, the Drona should have produced more than one Arjun, but the fact is he could not…..

    And fact of the matter is that Drona DID NOT give knowledge of ALL celestial weapons to Arjun viz. Narayanstra, Vaishanavastra etc, which he gave to Ashwatthama….. That is why Arjun was clueless when these weapons were fired in MB war….. Now if Drona wanted to make Arjun as best, then why did he not give these weapons to Arjun ?????

    Further, Arjun himself knew that he DID NOT receive all education from Drona, hence he went to Devlok for further education……

    Your statement-“It means that even before Arjuna started learning from Drona, Aswathama finished some of his education. Suppose you are a professor, and you have 2 students one who is in 10th standard, and one who has already completed his graduation. How can you give same lessons to both of them? Surely you should give special lessons(of PG) to the second student.”

    My ans- Invalid reason….. If that was the case then Drona should have straigthway told Kuru princes(& Arjun) to stay away from the “higher classes of Ashwattham”….. the kuru princes would have surely followed Drona’s orders, but instead Drona did the DRAMA of fooling kurus by making them fetch water in narrow mouthed pots….. A TRUE TEACHER would never do such DRAMA to fool his students…..

    Your statement-“Regarding fighting in the dark, Drona was following a particular pace in education. According to this pace, may be Arjuna will finish his education some 2-3 years after Aswathama. But Arjuna was impatient. He was comparing himself with Aswathama(who was his senior). Thus Arjuna used Varuna weapon to fill the vessel quickly and learnt alongside Aswathama.”

    My ans- Please dont mind, but this is just a Baseless theory of yours which is not mentioned in Vyas MB…. further this only shows the INABILITY of drona to judge the potential of Arjun to learn higher education(along with Ashwatthama)…. And you still call him best teacher ??

    Even today, many times we hear some 11-12 year old genius child passed the Std 12th class…. how ?? because his teachers quickly judged the potential of that Genius kid & allowed him to appear for Std 10th/12th exams directly at younger age……. Good teachers are supposed to Judge the real potential of a Student….. But as per your imaginative theory, Drona was not Good at it…..!!

    Your statement-“Similarly, teaching night time warfare seems to be in advanced lessons in Drona’s schedule. So, his plan would be to teach them to Arjuna after day time archery was perfected. But Drona knew that Arjuna will become restless once he knows about night time war. Hence Drona instructed the cook in that way. But after seeing Arjuna stringing the bow in the dark, Drona was convinced of Arjun’s extraordinary I.Q. So, thereafter, he gave special training to Arjuna also.”

    My ans- Again a Baseless theory of yours which is not mentioned in Vyas MB…. And this only shows the INABILITY of drona to judge the potential of Arjun…..

    Fact of the matter is that Drona never wanted Arjun to learn the art of night fight….. This is also proved by the fact that Drona did not teach the art of night fight to any kuru prince, that is why kurus were clueless(including Drona ??) when on 14th day fight continued till night & Ghatotkach started damaging kuru army, & so Karna had to use his best weapon-Vasavi to stop Ghatotkach….. does this show that even Drona did not knew the art of night fight properly ???

    Your statement-“If Drona really wanted to underequip Arjun, why will he communicate his best weapon Brahmashira to Arjun, which even Aswa does not know completely?”

    My ans- False claim…. Drona DID NOT give Brahmashira weapon to Arjun …. hence Arjun had to go to devlok to get it…. Following passages proves that…. Here Arjun asks for BRAHMASIRA weapon from Shiv, but instead Shive give him Pashupath… So Arjun might have acquired the BRAHMASIRA from Devlok:

    KMG quotes:
    “Arjuna said, ‘O illustrious god having the bull for thy sign, if thou wilt grant me my desire, I ask of thee, O lord that fierce celestial weapon wielded by thee and called BRAHMASIRA that weapon of terrible prowess which destroyeth, at the end of the Yucja the entire universe that weapon by the help of which,”
    —————————–

    This further proves the Partiality of Drona towards Arjun……

    I know you like Drona, but justifying every ill deed of your favourite character is not going to do any good to you, it will also make you bad like your favourite if you follow him as it is….. when Arjun tried to kill yudi(on 17th day), i openly criticized his actions…..

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    1. The statement “I know you like Drona, but justifying every ill deed of your favourite character is not going to do any good to you, it will also make you bad like your favourite if you follow him as it is” is Hilarious especially when it comes from Sachin who has been advocating POLYANDRY as ETHICAL but CHICKENS OUT when it comes to following it in his own life….

      Arjun was no doodh ka dhula as we all know his one night stands during luxurious exile, exploitation of drupadi, cousin abudction, killing of innocents, kiling weaponless & defenseless rivals….and list goes on and on!

      Among all these facts of MB this guy only sees argument between brothers worth criticising…..ha….ha…..ha….ha…ha…ha…ha….ha…..ha….ha…ha….ha….!! No wonder he is entertainment Galore in this blog

      Like

      1. Dear Sanjay this point of Sachin “And fact of the matter is that Drona DID NOT give knowledge of ALL celestial weapons to Arjun viz. Narayanstra, Vaishanavastra etc, which he gave to Ashwatthama….. That is why Arjun was clueless when these weapons were fired in MB war….. Now if Drona wanted to make Arjun as best, then why did he not give these weapons to Arjun ?????” I feels its well made. Drona had his own agenda too. He wanted Arjuna to be best so that he can kick drupad butt but then again blood is thicker than water. He wont want arjuna to be greater than ashwatthama. Drona too had pashupat astra ( I can quote passages from KMG.) Why didnt he give it to arjuna ? Why Arjuna had to take it from Shiva. Even if we agree Shivas pashupata was of superior quality ok fine but why wasnt that b grade pashupata given to Arjuna earlier.?

        Like

        1. In that case Niraj interpolation being flavour of this blog suggests Arjun never had Pasupata even from Shiva…why? Because Drona had it and he did nt give it to Arjun as accepted by Sachin and you. Arjun getting it directly from Shiva could in that case b later date interpolation to elevate image of Arjun fighting Shiva. If i go extra mile inspired by Sachin’s way of thinking Arjun went to Indra nt to get weapons but avoid hardships of exile. Since he was son of king of heaven Indra didnt want him spend his life in forests. If that was true then Arjun was actually cursed by Urvashi for behaving inappropriately with her. Pasupata was never used by Arjun verifying he never had it. Urvashi’s curse made him enunch but Indra might hv put limitation of one year to save blushes to his son. He stooped to a beggar level for his son also supports this theory…what do you say?

          Like

  14. @ Sachin,

    Look at the following 2 passages.

    In a short time Kripa became an eminent professor of the science (of arms). And the hundred sons of Dhritarashtra, and the Pandavas along with the Yadavas, and the Vrishnis, and many other princes from various lands, began to receive lessons from him in that science.'”

    “Vaisampayana said, ‘Arrived at Hastinapura, that best of Brahmanas, the son of Bharadwaja, continued to live privately in the house of Gautama (Kripa). His mighty son (Aswatthaman) at intervals of Kripa’s teaching, used to give the sons of Kunti lessons in the use of arms. But as yet none knew of Aswatthaman’s prowess.

    ——————————————————————————————————–

    I agree that Arjuna was a sharp student but without Drona’s special mentoring, it is not possible for even Arjun to transform into ultimate warrior. As an example, look at the first passage above which says that Pandavas including Arjun were receiving lessons from Kripa. But when they were playing with the ball and it fell into well, like other princes, Arjun also was clueless on how to extract it. When Drona extracted it using blades of grass, he was surprised. So, the point is, the best in Arjuna could not be ignited by Kripa, it required Drona.

    Now look at the second passage. It mentions that even Aswathama was teaching pandavas. This is before Drona was made preceptor. It means that even before Arjuna started learning from Drona, Aswathama finished some of his education. Suppose you are a professor, and you have 2 students one who is in 10th standard, and one who has already completed his graduation. How can you give same lessons to both of them? Surely you should give special lessons(of PG) to the second student.

    Regarding fighting in the dark, Drona was following a particular pace in education. According to this pace, may be Arjuna will finish his education some 2-3 years after Aswathama. But Arjuna was impatient. He was comparing himself with Aswathama(who was his senior). Thus Arjuna used Varuna weapon to fill the vessel quickly and learnt alongside Aswathama. This is like learning something in 1 year which normally takes 2-3 years. But as Arjuna was an intelligent student, he was able to manage. Similarly, teaching night time warfare seems to be in advanced lessons in Drona’s schedule. So, his plan would be to teach them to Arjuna after day time archery was perfected. But Drona knew that Arjuna will become restless once he knows about night time war. Hence Drona instructed the cook in that way. But after seeing Arjuna stringing the bow in the dark, Drona was convinced of Arjun’s extraordinary I.Q. So, thereafter, he gave special training to Arjuna also.

    If Drona really wanted to underequip Arjun, why will he communicate his best weapon Brahmashira to Arjun, which even Aswa does not know completely?

    Regarding best Yuga, in theory, we are certainly living in the best yuga ever, thanks to the liberal makers of our constitution. However, in practice, things seem to be a little different. There are hundreds of examples where the law is misused or used for selfish ends by politicians and business elite. Theoretically, we can sue even PM but in practice, we can’t go against even an MLA and remain safe.

    Like

    1. Well said Mr I….v cnnt inflate our 56 inch ka seena thinking law is there to protect us…reality v all knw. Kaliyug is all about fakeness and no substance when it comes to basic virtues of life and being human.

      I think there is some flaw in Indra asking Karna’s earrings for Sachi….why would Sachi fancy out of all earrings of all apsaras in heaven the earrings of A Suta MAN…?? Reference to his kavach makes sense as far as help to Arjun is concerned…

      Like

      1. The ear rings of apsaras are common, Sachi herself might be having far better ones but Karna’s Ear rings are different I believe in as much as they are not only extremely resplendent but also are dipped in nectar.

        Although help to Arjun is more logical but when there are two versions like these(to save Arjun and to please Sachi), we must assume that one of them is interpolation. There could be interpolators whose objective is to defame Arjun by saying that Indra tried to save him but what objective can be there for interpolators who mentioned Sachi’s gratification?

        Like

        1. Karna had both so Indra took kavach to help Arjun and earrings for Sachi….ha..ha..
          Vasusena acquired name Karna for he cut away his kavach so Sachi aspect shld b interpolation and not Arjun’s help.

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  15. @ Sanjay,

    Your statement-“I have already proved casteist attitude by Eklavya and Karna example and you chose to fight me on this.”

    My ans- Miyaan, point here is that Brahmin teachers did partiality with all Non-brahmin students, but you are only crying for Eklavya and Karna…..

    Your statement-“I have also highlighted partiality towards irresponsible Kuru princes when Duryo was accepted even after poisoning Bhima and you chose to fight here also.”

    My ans- Worthless point….. Miyaan, Drona was the Employed teacher of Hastinapur, hence it was his obligation to teach the royal Kuru princes at any cost…. What was going on between Kuru & Pandava princes was not the business of Drona(poisoning Bhima etc)….. Hence Drona had no authority to reject Duryo just because he did something unethical(poisoning Bhima etc)…..

    Your statement-“That is what Kaliyug is all about. Hans chogega kankar kauwa moti khayega….one woman was insulted and we had epic war in dwapar, one woman was abducted in Treta and we have Ramayana in front of us and today in Kaliyug porn is the booming business, movies sell on sex and violence….and just try to advice somebody on behaving properly pat comes the reply, “ who the hell are you? It’s my life and it is my fundamental right to do what I want to do…!!”

    My ans- Totally disagree with you here….. You need to open your brains & expand your thinking to understand that we are living in the BEST YUGA of all time…… I already explained this previously…..

    You say that “one woman was insulted and we had epic war in dwapar”…. , but you forgot that STAKING women was valid during MB times, but today it is a criminal offense & law PROTECTS women for this…… And MB war would not have happened if Duryo had returned the Indraprasth to Pandavas…. So Draupadi’s insult had no role in MB war…..

    You say that “one woman was abducted in Treta and we have Ramayana in front of us”….. But there is nothing EXTRAORDINARY in this… today Law protect women & punish the abductor and nobody can dare to DECLARE OPENLY that he has abducted a women…. But Ravan dared to do so….. Also, Ram abandoned Sita in the end…. But today, No husband can abandon/divorce his wife(without valid reason) & even after divorce, the husband is forced to give half of his property to wife & lifelong Allymony as well…….

    Further, Abduction of Unmarried women (& forceful marriage) was a usual practice during Mythological times….. But today nobody can dare to do so, because Law will punish whoever the abductor is(whether it is PM or President or a begger)

    Today, you can raise questions on the PM, CM etc & can ask him whether he is serving the common people properly or not,…. You can even sue PM in court… but during Mythological times nobody could dare to even speak against the king…..

    There are many more comparative points to prove that today we are living in the BEST POSSIBLE YUGA of all time……

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    1. Sachin

      Point u r missing is that Karna and Eklavya were also non-brahmins. Since u r crying for elites there should b someone to highlight injustice to non-elite members as well…

      Partiality was evident even in dice game and lakshagriha, if u hv problem understanding poisoning episode….

      Rest of your thoughts on today’s time confirm that u r either Alice in Wonderland or Grown up KID who has closed his eyes to the world around him.

      Like

  16. Dear Mr I,

    Indra lost to only those demons who had some special boon or privileges, I think. The boon giver were either of Trinity or some sages. So to maintain the sanctity of those boons Vishnu etc had to do something out of the box to help Indra hence intervention. On second thought, MB mostly uses ornamental language like it was like a battle between Indra and Asuras of yore days or he appeared embodiment of Vasava etc. There are very few mentions of Indra defeating or killing somebody. So I do not know how much should we get carried away with references of Indra in MB?

    Sachin is the best but Sourav helps him at times. Sourav is not batsman alone. He is captain of the team as well. He has to ensure best for the team and achieve victory. In the same regard if he wants Sachin to bat lower the order or open the innings Sachin will see the purpose and would act accordingly. So Sachin’s status as BEST batsman is not being undermined but Sourav’s role has larger objective.

    Your statement – Regarding yuga theory, it was just an alternative approach. Baba Ramdev is no authority on yoga.

    My answer – Yes he may not be so but he claims to practice Patanjali yoga. We need to see if someone adhering to sacred knowledge can defy Kaliyuga’s plan or not. This was in response to your point that people of all age can follow Vedas.

    Your statement – Bhishma is atleast 20 when Vichitravirya was born. So, Bhishma was like his father. So, the hierarchy is Bhishma>Vichitravirya>Pandu>Bhima>Ghatotkacha>Anjanaparvan.
    Or we may add vahlika before Bhishma. So, Vahlika was fighting the war along with Anjanaparvan who is 6 to 7 generations youger.

    My answer – Whatever the fact is in our age we cannot have 100 plus years man fighting along with his grandson’s grandson. This means people had longer lifespan during dwapar. Going by same logic earlier yugas should also have even longer span to adhere to such law, if any.

    Your statement – What additional wonders are seen in Krita yuga that are not seen in Dwapara age? If there is no deterioration from Krita to Treta to Dwapara, how is there a sedden deterioration in kali Yuga?

    My answer – There is a gradual deterioration in life span, physical, mental and spiritual strengths, health, virtues & morals and detachment as we move from Krita to Kaliyug.

    Your statement – If I be put behind bars for performing large scale sacrifices aimed at the benefit of humanity, what should be done to those who cut down thousands of trees, those because of whom we see millions of cars daily on our roads, those who are depleting Ozone layer, those who are killing whales and other animals indiscriminately, those who are polluting oceans and rivers and those who are testing nukes? If nature is not harmed by any of these how are only sacrifices coming in the way?

    My answer – That is what Kaliyug is all about. Hans chogega kankar kauwa moti khayega….one woman was insulted and we had epic war in dwapar, one woman was abducted in Treta and we have Ramayana in front of us and today in Kaliyug porn is the booming business, movies sell on sex and violence….and just try to advice somebody on behaving properly pat comes the reply, “ who the hell are you? It’s my life and it is my fundamental right to do what I want to do…!!”

    Your statement – Look at the statement ” My knowledge will perish along with me”. So, it is only when I(the knower) perish that my knowledge perishes.

    My answer – This is why I said knower and knowledge are perishable but eternal God is not because he is free from knowledge. Knowledge he created for perishables.

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  17. Dear Mr Invincible,

    Your statement-“It is Drona who promised that he will make Arjuna as the greatest warrior and he did it by teaching Arjuna all war modes, weapons, vyuhas special armours etc.”

    My ans- Well this is just a simple misconception of Vyas MB (or Interpolation) that Drona WANTED to make Arjun as the best warrior, because the facts of Vyas MB says something ELSE…..

    Just answer my 2 Simple questions Mr I:

    Q1.: Why did Drona gave secret lessons to Ashwattham, which Drona didnt even want Arjun to learn ??

    Q2.: Drona told the servants of Ashram never to give Arjun food in the dark, so that Arjun should not get the idea of learning the art of night fight… Why did Drona did this ??

    And the above 2 events occured AFTER Arjun had promised drona that he would fulfill his WISH (to capture Drupad) & here Drona promises to make Arjun the best warrior…..!!

    Although there are many such examples, But above two event clearly proves that Drona didnt give a damn whether Arjun becomes the best warrior or not…..

    Fact is that Drona gave equal education to all of his students, but Arjun became best on his own:

    KMG quotes:
    “Indeed, although the instruction the preceptor gave, was the same in the case of all, yet in lightness and skill Arjuna became the foremost of all his fellow pupils. And Drona was convinced that none of his pupils would (at any time) be able to equal to that son of Indra”
    ————————

    So even Drona knew this fact that Arjun will become the best on his own….. But still Drona tried to do PARTIALITY with Arjun(above 2 example) after this……!!

    Your statement-“If Indra(Sachin) has lost to all asuras but Vishnu(Ganguly) or some other god killed them, I don’t see any reason why Aryans had to make so many references to Indra. The funniest thing is that Indra is the god of war who himself cannot win any war without Vishnu’s aid. It is like someone is a professor in English but does not know ABCs. Either references in Mahabharat are untrue or puranic stories are untrue. But because these references are scattered throughout Mahabharat and because puranas do not agree with each other, I believe puranas are untrue.”

    My ans- Well, i agree with you here…. I had already stated previously that Indra was superior as compared to Vishnu/Shiv/Brahma, because Indra was the KING of Devas & Vishnu/Shiv/Brahma were his subordinate ministers….. And in the initial period of Indra’s dominance, Indra himself killed many asuras, but in later period, Indra ORDERED his subordinate ministers(Vishnu/Shiv) to kill Asuras, because the king(Indra) is not supposed to flow sweat everytime….. But the later date interpolators simply glorified Vishnu/Shiv as if everytime Vishnu/Shiv killed an Asura, the interpolators said that Asura had already defeated Indra & so Indra had gone to Vishnu/Shiv for help…!!

    Since in the later period, most of the killings were done by Vishnu/Shiv, hence they got more Glorifications than Indra, somehow people forgot the significance of Indra….

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  18. Friends, read the following passage in Duryodhana’s words. The passage gives a different reason for Indra’s taking away Karna’s earrings.

    All these mighty car-warriors, O king, are like unto celestials, and can, O bull of the Bharata race, inflict pain on Sakra himself in battle. Arjuna is incapable of even looking at any one of these singly. When united together, these tigers among men will certainly slay Dhananjaya. Karna also, I suppose, is equal unto Bhishma and Drona and Kripa. O Bharata, Rama himself had told him,–Thou art equal unto me. Karna had two ear-rings born with him, of great brilliance and beauty; for Sachi’s gratification Indra begged them of that repressor of foes, in exchange, O king, of an infallible and terrible shaft. How would Dhananjaya, therefore, escape with life from Karna who is protected by that arrow?

    The reason is Sachi’s gratification and not for securing Arjun’s life?

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    1. And in the above passage also you can see inflict pain on SAKRA himself in battle. Hmm Why only Sakra and not any other god?

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  19. Sachin – Looking at the behavior of various Teachers of MB period, one can see that the Brahmin War Teachers of MB period were very Selfish & Cast Oriented people….

    Sanjay – I have already proved casteist attitude by Eklavya and Karna example and you chose to fight me on this.

    Sachin – Now, Kripa was an appointed Rajguru of Hastinapur & a salaried employee, hence as a complusion he had to teach the Hastinapur Princes….. But Drona never gave war education to anyone, but when Drona got broke & got rejected/insulted by Drupad, then Drona was forced to accept the Teacher’s job of Hastinapur….. Still Drona was doing partiality with Kuru princes, by giving secret lessons to Ashwatthama…..

    Sanjay – I have also highlighted partiality towards irresponsible Kuru princes when Duryo was accepted even after poisoning Bhima and you chose to fight here also.

    Sachin – I believe, that since the special war education was exclusively reserved by Brahmins, hence during Satyuga, Parshuram could easily destroy the Non-educated Kshatriyas of India….. But during Mb period, most of the Kshatriyas got the special war education(by luck), hence Parshuram was almost ineffective…….

    Sanjay – I can see INDIAN Sachin….SATYUG….?? Hmmmm…

    Sachin – I still remember one dialogue of Shakuni from BR Chopra’s MB, where Shakuni says to Duryo(in reference to Drona)-“Shashtra(weapons) chalaane waale Brahmin se hamesha bachke rehna chahiye…. Aur Hastinapur mein to 2-2 brahmin Shastra chalaate hai (Drona & kripa)!!”….. Here Shakuni was referring to the destruction done by Parshuram during Satyuga…

    Sanjay – But you forgot Karna saying to Kunti “yeh kaisa vichitra sanjog hai ke pichhale kuchh dinon mein mujhe prithvi ke raj ka yeh doosra amantran diya ja raha hai….!”

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  20. Mr I – If Indra is the god of war, what about the puranic stories which mention his repeated defeats at the hands of every demon?

    Sanjay – Demons were no lesser than Gods in might and penances. No human could face them so it all fell on God of war. Many among them had appeased Trinity to get boons. Most of them misused boons and crossed their limits. Indra could not fight boons. So to cut short demons’ dominance, Trinity had to intervene.

    Mr I – I think it is a misconception regarding the life spans of yugas. In Mahabharata, it is mentioned that yuga depends on king and not vice versa. If a king rules in such a way that all 4 wheels of dharma are in motion, then it is krita yuga, similarly for 3, 2 and 1 wheel, it is Treta, Dwapara and Kali yugas. So, it all depends on the king. Within the same time zone, more than one yuga can exist. For example, in Ramayan, there could be Krita yuga in Ayodhya, treta yuga in kishkindha, dwapara yuga in lanka and kali yuga in some tribal kingdom. The following passage from Mahabharat suggests something similar……..

    Sanjay – I repeat my earlier point that MB is not end of the world so we cannot take everything in it on its face value. If it was so then Yudi would have brought back Krita yuga in Indraprastha at least being epitome of Dharma himself. Krishna would have done same in Dwarka. Even Bharat could not succeed in establishing a Ramrajya. Gupta period is also called Golden age not Kirta yuga. So I think there is some flaw in this thought. Your own statement also negates this thought when you say all 4 wheels of dharma are in motion. We know that wheel of dharma is no physical but a subtle, invisible reference following time (motion). This means that over a period of time either of the wheels will cease to be in motion. So how can a king stop or revive that wheel? If it implies to Dharma, artha, kaam and moksha also how can king my personal four wheels in my life? For me it could be any yuga depending on my personal circumstances…

    Your Text from MB – ‘When the king properly abideth by the penal code, without making any portion of it a dead letter, then that best of periods called the Krita Yuga setteth in (dandaniityaam yadaa raajaa samyak kaartsnyena vartate/ tadaa krtayugam naama kaalah shreshthah pravartate, 14). Let not this doubt be thine, viz., whether the era is the cause of the king, or the king the cause of the era, for (know this to be certain that) the king is the cause of the era (raajaa kaalasya kaaranam, 15c). It is the king that createth the Krita, the Treta, or the Dwapara age. Indeed, it is the king that is the cause of also the fourth Yuga (viz., the Kali). That king, who causeth the Krita age to set in, enjoyeth heaven exceedingly. That king, who causeth the Treta age to set in, doth enjoy heaven but not exceedingly. For thus causing the Dwapara age to set in, a king enjoyeth heaven according to his due. The king, however, who causeth the Kali age to set in, earneth sin exceedingly (5.130).’

    My view – It is a metaphor said for a king in context of him being just……PENAL CODE / dandaniityaam i.e. punishing policy. Example – if Dhritrashtra would have done justice to Pandavas and punished Duryo for his misdoings, he would have aptly followed PENAL CODE / dandaniti. People would feel secure and abide by penal code themselves. That would bring happy days (Krita yuga). If we apply it in today’s time then we know neither we have kings in all nations nor those few kings we have are fair and just. It is like Andher nagari chopat raja….if leaders are corrupt so will be public hence no happiness in the society. You should understand it in such terms.

    Mr I – The sub branch of Veda viz. Ayurveda mentions the rules one must follow to attain full life span. Further, following the special breathing techniques of yoga, one can enhance the lifespan further. This is the same in every yuga. And we must remember that there in no big difference in the lifestyles(or lifespans) of religious people of Krita, Treta and Dwapar ages. So, I believe that the lifespan and energy required to perform the vedic sacrifices and austerities can be obtained by men of any yuga if they subscribe to the rules of healthy life laid out in Ayurveda and yoga.

    Sanjay – I agree with you that Vedas do prescribe certain lifestyle for living world but if we do not follow it or are unable to follow it due to factors which are not in our control then what can Vedas do about it? Today you will be challaned or put behind bars for polluting atmosphere if you try sacrifice by burning homa for days and days. You cannot perform Rajsuya or Ashwmedha yaga for there are no kings and such ceremonies. Though we may not be able to follow up on this but let us see how long does Baba Ramdev live? Can we today have Bhishma and Anajanaparva fighting same war together? In our age either Bhishma would be highly incapacitated or Anajanaparva would be an infant surviving on milk…..

    Mr I – Your statement that God does not require any faculties to have awareness is not logical because it defies the very definition of knowledge. If God is the originator of knowledge, then prior to it’s creation, he has to be devoid of knowledge. Otherwise, it cannot be said that knowledge is created.

    Sanjay – I think I have already explained it. God creates things. When things are there then only their knowledge is required. God does not need knowledge for it is beyond mind and senses….

    Mr I – (Absolute)Knowledge never has a lifespan, it is the knower that has a lifespan.

    Sanjay – My knowledge will perish with me hence has lifespan. All perishable things in creation has limited knowledge. If God is beyond perishing of creation then he is eternal and absolute. To know that absolute is Absolute knowledge. Therefore this is the eternal knowledge as well.

    Mr I – Your description of God’s home with so many Nos like no pain no age no decay etc comes down to ultimate freedom and happiness. If god is the creator, and if god is aware that ultimate perfection lies in freedom from bondage due to karmic reactions and if he is further aware that mind is the root cause of karmic reactions, WHY DID HE CREATE MIND IN THE FIRST PLACE? Without mind, all souls would have been enjoying in God’s own home. Why are things like maya and kaal created?

    Sanjay – Let us ask Him alone….! Why did he do so? All the more reason to SEEK HIM:-)

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    1. Suppose we see one of our friends playing cricket well. We compliment him saying something like he is playing as good as Sachin or even Sachin may not play so well etc. We say this because we consider Sachin as the best. But if the same Sachin has lost every match but India won by the performance of some superior batsman say ganguly, then why will we consider sachin as the best? To compliment someone, we would then be saying, even Ganguly(and not Sachin) may not play so well.

      If Indra(Sachin) has lost to all asuras but Vishnu(Ganguly) or some other god killed them, I don’t see any reason why Aryans had to make so many references to Indra. The funniest thing is that Indra is the god of war who himself cannot win any war without Vishnu’s aid. It is like someone is a professor in English but does not know ABCs. Either references in Mahabharat are untrue or puranic stories are untrue. But because these references are scattered throughout Mahabharat and because puranas do not agree with each other, I believe puranas are untrue.

      Regarding yuga theory, it was just an alternative approach. Baba Ramdev is no authority on yoga. Bhishma is atleast 20 when Vichitravirya was born. So, Bhishma was like his father. So, the hierarchy is Bhishma>Vichitravirya>Pandu>Bhima>Ghatotkacha>Anjanaparvan.

      Or we may add vahlika before Bhishma. So, Vahlika was fighting the war along with Anjanaparvan who is 6 to 7 generations youger. What additional wonders are seen in Krita yuga that are not seen in Dwapara age? If there is no deterioration from Krita to Treta to Dwapara, how is there a sedden deterioration in kali Yuga?

      If I be put behind bars for performing large scale sacrifices aimed at the benefit of humanity, what should be done to those who cut down thousands of trees, those because of whom we see millions of cars daily on our roads, those who are depleting Ozone layer, those who are killing whales and other animals indiscriminately, those who are polluting oceans and rivers and those who are testing nukes? If nature is not harmed by any of these how are only sacrifices coming in the way?

      Look at the statement ” My knowledge will perish along with me”. So, it is only when I(the knower) perish that my knowledge perishes.

      Like

  21. War Teachers of MB period:

    Looking at the behavior of various Teachers of MB period, one can see that the Brahmin War Teachers of MB period were very Selfish & Cast Oriented people…. Reasons are as follows:

    – War Teachers of MB period(brahmins) always tried to keep their war knowledge upto their Brahmin caste only….. Hence they always taught to Brahmin students only…. e.g. Parshuram…..

    – Now, Kripa was an appointed Rajguru of Hastinapur & a salaried employee, hence as a complusion he had to teach the Hastinapur Princes….. But Drona never gave war education to anyone, but when Drona got broke & got rejected/insulted by Drupad, then Drona was forced to accept the Teacher’s job of Hastinapur….. Still Drona was doing partiality with Kuru princes, by giving secret lessons to Ashwatthama…..

    – When Dhritrashtra/Pandu grew up then they did not get accepted by any War teacher, hence Bhishma himself gave the war education to them…..

    – I believe, that since the special war education was exclusively reserved by Brahmins, hence during Satyuga, Parshuram could easily destroy the Non-educated Kshatriyas of India….. But during Mb period, most of the Kshatriyas got the special war education(by luck), hence Parshuram was almost ineffective…….

    – I still remember one dialogue of Shakuni from BR Chopra’s MB, where Shakuni says to Duryo(in reference to Drona)-“Shashtra(weapons) chalaane waale Brahmin se hamesha bachke rehna chahiye…. Aur Hastinapur mein to 2-2 brahmin Shastra chalaate hai (Drona & kripa)!!”….. Here Shakuni was referring to the destruction done by Parshuram during Satyuga….

    – Had Drona been not broke & poor, then he would have never agreed to give war education to Kshatriyas…..

    – Arjun knew that he has not received ALL knowledge of warfare/weapons from Drona, hence he went to Devlok for getting the extra education….. after getting drona’s education, even Arjun did not get any other “Brahmin” teacher…..

    – Abhimanyu was taught by Krishna(Non-brahmin)…..

    – Satyaki, Pradyumna, Yuyudhana (son of Satyaki), Aniruddha etc were taught by Arjun (Non-brahmin)…..

    – Balaram(Non-brahmin) gave special education about Mace-fight to Bhim/Duryo…..

    ————–

    So the conclusion is that, we always assumed that Brahmins were the Non-voilent cast of Mythological period, but the fact was exactly opposite….. Brahmins may not have ruled the kingdoms but they always reserved the “special war knowledge” to themselves, so that they can destroy Kshatriyas anytime they want…. this means Brahmins always had the “EDGE”…. Smart, isnt it…..!!

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    1. There is no doubt brahmins were not non violent, there were many war mongers among them but consider the following.

      Parashuram had not defeated and killed an illiterate kshatriya, he killed kartya virya Arjuna who is one of the foremost of emperors and a mighty warrior who defeated Ravana. And this Arjuna received his training and weapons from Dattatreya, who is another Brahmin.

      Parashurama could not prevail over Bhishma, this does not make him ineffective as Bhishma is not a weakling. All weapons which are known to Parashurama are also known to Bhishma(or rather given to Bhishma by Parashurama himself). And it was not a cakewalk for Bhishma, he had an intense battle for 23 days, if Bhishma was not communicated the parswapa astra by his ancestors, war would have continued for many more days without any result.

      Two non brahmins Krishna and Balarama taught Abhimanyu and Bhima/Duryo but these two non brahmins were taught by brahmin Sandeepa.

      Hence we may understand, it is always not possible to study under a brahmin in his ashram by serving him and spending many yeras in that way. Hence kshatriyas who needed knowledge fast received it from senior/superior kshatriyas which need not mean they were rejected by brahmins.

      It is Drona who promised that he will make Arjuna as the greatest warrior and he did it by teaching Arjuna all war modes, weapons, vyuhas special armours etc. Even though Arjuna learnt from gods, but it was knowledge given by Drona that came to Arjun’s use the most. Arjuna never had to use Pasupathastra of Rudra or Indra’s vajra but he used Brahmastra many times. Knowledge of chakravyuha and that of special armour also helped Arjun. The knowledge gained by Arjuna from gods is useful mainly while fighting with gods or asuras but not with humans.

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  22. Dear Mr I,

    Too many points in your post. I attempt to cover all of them in the shortest possible way.

    Indra:- As said he is God of wars so his references will be inevitable. Since MB war had to consume all weapons before advent of Kaliyug he finds towering mentions in MB. He cannot be weakling if he is war of Gods.

    Region of bliss:- It is common in MB because they used to follow Vedic culture. Vedas offer region of bliss or heaven as ultimate goals hence such desires. Vedas also promote caste system placing Brahmins up in the ladder so their appeasement becomes mandatory. As Brahmins would say people were expected to follow them. Vedas recommend sacrifices through Brahmins, charity to Brahmins, scripture teaching from Brahmins, advice from Brahmins, service to Brahmins etc….Now if same Brahmins say by doing so and so one would get so and so region people would buy that. Who would ask them about God? If someone would ask them they would point to Creator but no one tells how to meet Creator?

    Creator:- Creator did not create himself. Creator created creation. He is also called swayambhu meaning the one which happens on his own. So his existence or non-existence is meaningless.

    Ordinance in Vedas:- From whatever I understand Vedic ordinance comprise of four castes, 68 pilgrimages, various sacrifices and teachings, subjects, studies etc. People are expected to follow them. The adherence to these is considered dharma and deviation adharma. But to follow the ordinance you need specific environment and supporting factors besides intelligence. For e.g. if you are expected to perform sacrifice stretching over many days like Rajsuya yaga, you need to have that physical endurance to attend the sacrifice uninterrupted. You need strict discipline for desired results. Satyug was more close to origin of Vedas hence highest physical capacities and longest life spans. Gradual reduction during Treta and dwapar and least in Kaliyug because Vedas would not be center of life anymore.
    ===============

    Your statement – Is God aware of Himself? If No, then he is no God. If yes, then this awareness itself is knowledge. This itself proves that Knowledge is not created by God. If God created knowledge, then there should be a time when God existed but knowledge did not exist. And during this time, God was ignorant about everything because knowledge was not created, so no knowledge. Do we call an ignorant God as God? Even if we do, how can an ignorant God create knowledge? This strongly establishes that knowledge is not created by God.

    My answer – Awareness as knowledge is the state of mind and intelligence. Since neither is required in God’s home knowledge for God is redundant. God created mind to acquire knowledge. Thus he is the origin of knowledge and knowledgeable enough to know how to facilitate knowledge as well yet independent of knowledge. In other words he created Vedas for the minds to imbibe instructions in them. So Vedas and their impact in minds both are knowledge.

    Your statement – Let us assume that God and knowledge are both eternal and both independent of each other. But God created universe. Creation of universe requires Knowledge. So, God was Dependent on knowledge for creation of universe. But knowledge does not depend on God for its existence(because if knowledge ceases to exist, then God also ceases to exist). Summary is knowledge is not created by God, knowledge is also not dependent on God. On the contrary, God depends on knowledge. This proves knowledge is above God.

    My answer – In that case there has to be another universe to gain knowledge about creating it. Since it is not there it means knowledge of creating universe emerged from God himself. As explained above knowledge is dependent on God and not vice versa. Knowledge has a life span but God is eternal. Swayambhu decides on his own to create and after creating he shares knowledge of that creation with its constituents. These constituents get this knowledge in the form of their respective role in the creation. This limited knowledge aptly abide by what you are saying. For instance, Indra is knowledgeable in warfare but not in spirituality.

    Your statement – Applying the same to the creator of science vs science, the creator of science cannot create science without science because creation itself involves science. So, science is never created. God is only knower of science and not creator of science. So, it is same as science vs scientist.

    My answer – By creator of Science I meant laws of science as well as execution of those laws. Execution will not happen without laws being enforced. Law creation is the preliminary step in the process. In the absence of either of them Science has no relevance and cannot sustain.
    ===============

    Your statement – Now, the most important topic of heaven vs kingdom of God. But before this, I wish to inform you that for now I won’t mind but in future do not make such comparisions of heaven and it’s seekers with pigs and beggars.

    My answer – I used the metaphor of pig to draw across the point that each and every thing in this creation has its own choice irrespective of availability of better choices. By beggar I wanted to share our (humans) position in front of God, the Almighty. Still if you felt offended then I am sorry….

    Your statement – There are three layers, the soul, the mind and the body. No layer can exist without other layers.

    My answer – Soul can exist in isolation. It needs body to settle karmic account. To settle karmic account it is supported by mind which provides the body with senses, intelligence, sense of discretion and ability to act.

    Your statement – That is why as soon as one dies, he obtains a subtle body in place of the physical body. He stays in this body until he obtains another physical body.

    My answer – You got it absolutely right. But whichever body it is in it has to do karmas as long as mind is attached. Mind gets detached only when soul would reach peak of Brahma i.e. when it enters par-brahma. Till then either of the bodies cover the soul.

    Your statement – This proves that soul and mind cannot exist without body(physical or subtle). If this is the case, how can soul alone exist without both mind and body? Further, soul is the same in all living beings. It is the mind and body that differentiate one living being from another. Mind commands the body and body obeys. Soul is simply inert and it neither does the work like body nor enjoys the fruit like the mind. So, having soul alone and not mind and body is akin to not having anything, that is, being non existant.

    My answer – Each soul has different karmic account as well. If you cover an electric bulb with layers of cloth you may reach a point when you will see only a bundle of cloth and no light. As you start removing the layers of cloth you can gradually see the light. Soul is like electric bulb and different bodies are layers of cloth. As you progress spiritually you keep empowering soul to waken up out of karmic burden. Once your burden is lowered you can see light and hear divine music sound inside you. Then you realize that you are not a body but soul. It may, however, take years and years or birth and births to do that. Once soul realizes its identity it travels faster towards higher spiritual planes then only its significance can be known. It assumes illumination of 16 suns as it gets closer to God’s abode…..

    Your statement – Let us assume that heaven and God’s kingdom are both eternal. How many of us would seek God’s kingdom then? So, here the attraction is for eternality and not for God.

    My answer – You got it right again. If we do not know about God why would we need him? We are content with our own small objectives like good house, life partner, successful professional life, circle of friends, name, fame and money, heaven, Vaikunth etc….

    Your statement – Similarly, assume, there is God’s kingdom where God exists. If you enter into that Kingdom, you will never have to come back. You can always have God’s association. But you won’t have any bliss. Instead you will have torture. Now will you still seek God’s kingdom? How many will? So, this proves that the real attraction is for bliss(and absence of torture) and not for God or his association.

    My answer – Who told you there is no bliss and you would be tortured? It is ultimate bliss with no desire there whatsoever. Eternal peace and happiness. No duality, no karmic accounts….! No power in entire creation can ever touch you. No birth-death cycle. No pains, age, decay, disease, vices….no form, no description, no colour, caste, gender….no worshipping, no insults, no sacrifices, mantras….absolute freedom from any attachment…..such liberties and happiness you cannot even think or imagine. Words fail to describe them….!!

    Your statement – Summary is everyone(from ordinary people to Brahmarshis) has the same desire. To have continuous bliss forever. God is desirable only as long as he is the source of bliss but no one desires him if he were the source of torture.

    My answer – That itself proves soul’s natural attraction towards its original home i.e. proximity to God. God is indeed source of TRUE BLISS not momentary or fake bliss. There is only ONE Kohinoor diamond in the world. People who cannot have it settle for crude replicas or copies or fakes or low priced diamonds. So Kaal offers other regions of bliss to mislead souls. These regions are also so alluring that the visitor does not want to leave them. Kaal promotes them through scriptures and incarnations so that people stay away from God.

    Your statement – So, if heaven can provide the same eternal bliss, what is the need for a kingdom of God? The kingdom of God is necessary to keep God popular. I mean, if Vishnu has to be popular, Vaishnavas should keep on propagating that Vaikunta alone is the permanent planet, all others are temporary, so if you want permanent bliss, worship Vishnu. The same applies to Shaivaites who propagate that Kailash alone is permanent which can be obtained only by worshipping Shiva. Similarly Jesus propagates that Kingdom of father alone is permanent which can be obtained through him alone.

    My answer – Jesus propogating kingdom of father is the REAL GOD’s HOME. He does not say MY HOME as Vaikunth or Kailash. You can make out the difference. It is through him because he is connected to God, one, because he has been nominated by God, two, because he has come in human form to collect his marked sheeps (those souls which have been chosen by God to be brought back). He would reveal the REAL GOD (his father) to them and show them the way to meet him. Neither Vishnu nor Shiva can ever say that. Krishna in Geeta promotes self….!

    Your statement – Those who don’t like idol worship propagate that Vishnu, Shiva etc are all inferior, there is a supreme God who is above form and name and he alone can give eternal bliss.

    My answer – This is the result of rituals that people start worshipping stones (idols). The idols were placed to remind us of devotion to God. Since God cannot be seen with physical eyes idols were prepared to help focus our attention on the job of remembering him through the structures. Gradually it becomes the norm to have idols thus deviating people from main objective of idol worship. Then comes a point in time line when we get ready to kill humans (temple of God) if these structures are harmed.

    Your statement – But what matters to the common man is the bliss and not where it is coming from. If it is proven that Vishnu alone can give eternal bliss, no one will worship Shiva. That’s why I said why worship God unnaturally.

    My answer – You are right here also. How can there be multiple Gods? All powers need to converge at single point. That single point cannot have various destinations. It is again Kaal’s game to position various deities to confuse souls thus concealing REAL GOD.

    Your statement – Regarding your example of king vs beggar, king assigns some duties to his officials. If they fulfill their duties, they will be paid salary by him. On the other hand, a beggar does not do any work. He simply sings King’s praises. So, King may throw some maney at him but will not entertain him for long. Those who perform sacrifices are like officials and they get their salary in the form of at least temporary heaven. But those who simply sing God’s greatness but do no useful work are like beggars who don’t have any long time gains. I am saying useful works because it is believed that sacrifices cause rain which is useful for agriculture which further results in a rich and healthy state. No such benefit is to be seen from chanting.

    My answer – You have caught the correct essence. Officials job is to do official jobs for which they are paid. They cannot claim their right over king. In the same manner so-called Gods or demi-gods do not have the privilege to realize God in their respective form. It is humans, the beggar who can claim right over king due to submission and humility. This should not be confused with flattery. If such beggar can make king happy by his devotion the king will be pleased with him and keep him with self. In such case why would beggar bother about king’s palace or guards or wealth etc. Entire kingdom and king’s belongings would be his then. How many Americans or Europeans or for that matter Indians also do useful works to bring rain? But they still get rain. This means officials’ job is neither useful nor useless but IT IS THEIR JOB. Vishnu is god of survival at nabhi-chakra in human body. If Muslim does not worship him would Vishnu stop digesting his food in the stomach? No the stomach will continue doing its job….!

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    1. If Indra is the god of war, what about the puranic stories which mention his repeated defeats at the hands of every demon?

      I think it is a misconception regarding the life spans of yugas. In Mahabharata, it is mentioned that yuga depends on king and not vice versa. If a king rules in such a way that all 4 wheels of dharma are in motion, then it is krita yuga, similarly for 3, 2 and 1 wheel, it is Treta, Dwapara and Kali yugas. So, it all depends on the king. Within the same time zone, more than one yuga can exist. For example, in Ramayan, there could be Krita yuga in Ayodhya, treta yuga in kishkindha, dwapara yuga in lanka and kali yuga in some tribal kingdom.

      The following passage from Mahabharat suggests something similar.

      ‘When the king properly abideth by the penal code, without making any portion of it a dead letter, then that best of periods called the Krita Yuga setteth in (dandaniityaam yadaa raajaa samyak kaartsnyena vartate/ tadaa krtayugam naama kaalah shreshthah pravartate, 14). Let not this doubt be thine, viz., whether the era is the cause of the king, or the king the cause of the era, for (know this to be certain that) the king is the cause of the era (raajaa kaalasya kaaranam, 15c). It is the king that createth the Krita, the Treta, or the Dwapara age. Indeed, it is the king that is the cause of also the fourth Yuga (viz., the Kali). That king, who causeth the Krita age to set in, enjoyeth heaven exceedingly. That king, who causeth the Treta age to set in, doth enjoy heaven but not exceedingly. For thus causing the Dwapara age to set in, a king enjoyeth heaven according to his due. The king, however, who causeth the Kali age to set in, earneth sin exceedingly (5.130).’
      ——————————————————————————————————–

      The sub branch of Veda viz. Ayurveda mentions the rules one must follow to attain full life span. Further, following the special breathing techniques of yoga, one can enhance the lifespan further. This is the same in every yuga. And we must remember that there in no big difference in the lifestyles(or lifespans) of religious people of Krita, Treta and Dwapar ages. So, I believe that the lifespan and energy required to perform the vedic sacrifices and austerities can be obtained by men of any yuga if they subscribe to the rules of healthy life laid out in Ayurveda and yoga.

      ——————————————————————————————————–

      Your statement that God does not require any faculties to have awareness is not logical because it defies the very definition of knowledge. If God is the originator of knowledge, then prior to it’s creation, he has to be devoid of knowledge. Otherwise, it cannot be said that knowledge is created.

      (Absolute)Knowledge never has a lifespan, it is the knower that has a lifespan.

      Your description of God’s home with so many Nos like no pain no age no decay etc comes down to ultimate freedom and happiness. If god is the creator, and if god is aware that ultimate perfection lies in freedom from bondage due to karmic reactions and if he is further aware that mind is the root cause of karmic reactions, WHY DID HE CREATE MIND IN THE FIRST PLACE? Without mind, all souls would have been enjoying in God’s own home. Why are things like maya and kaal created?

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  23. Sanjay – DRONA’S ANGLE IS VERY MUCH CONTEXTUAL….ACTUAL PERFORMANCE – MATCHING ARJUN IN RANGSHALA & SWAYMWAR, WINNING WHOLE INDIA, REPELLING MULTIPLE ATTACKS INCULDING ARJUN ALONE, DURYO’S SWAYMWAR, JARASANDH’S DEFEAT, GHATOTKACH KILLING, NAGASTRA, BHARGAVASTRA….SO YOUR CALIM IS BASELESS HENCE I WIN THIS DEBATE AS WELL…..!!
    My ans repelling multiple attacks including arjuna yeh hadsa kab hua. OK fine you must have meant below passage
    “Sanjaya said, ‘Then the Kurus and the Srinjayas once more fearlessly encountered each other in battle, the Parthas being headed by Yudhishthira, and ourselves headed by the Suta’s son. Then commenced a terrible battle, making the hair to stand on end, between Karna and the Pandavas, that increased the population of Yama’s kingdom. After that furious battle, producing rivers of blood, had commenced, and when a remnant only of the brave samsaptakas, O Bharata, were left unslaughtered, Dhrishtadyumna, O monarch, with all the kings (on the Pandava side) and those mighty car-warriors–the Pandavas themselves, all rushed against Karna only. Like the mountain receiving a vast body of water, Karna, unaided by anyone, received in that battle all those advancing warriors filled with joy and longing for victory. Those mighty car-warriors encountering Karna, were beat off and broken like a mass of water, and beat back on all sides when it encounters a mountain.
    Pandavas themselves attacked and beaten is clearly written but does it necessarily mean mean bhima and arjuna. Below is what dictionary says on the phrase “ themselves “
    Use for phrase themselves definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary
    – used for emphasizing that a particular group of people are the ones that you are referring to, and not any others
    No one knows more about crime than the criminals themselves.
    The two youths died in a fire that they themselves had started.
    Expecting the Karna hate club to acknowledge that bhima and arjuna were in that attack and got booted away will be unreasonable more so when you have seen attacks which have clearly mentioned bhimas name and booted away and karna haters believing bhima not in that attack.

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  24. @ Sanjay,

    Your statement-“Sachin – Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Lo kallo baat….. Ab montesory bachhe hamein gyaan denge….!! Ha..ha..ha..ha..Sanjay – NO ANSWER HENCE I WIN THIS DEABTE….!!”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha..ha… Ha..ha..ha..ha… Hey guys, just look how this kid is crying for his lost candy….!! Ha..ha..ha..ha… What do you want kid ?? BUBBLEGUM OR CHOCOLATE ?? Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Your statement-“Sanjay-“When did Karna/Eklavya kill common people?”Sachin– Ha..ha..ha..ha.. This is just like a Local “Gunda” of Dharavi(Mumbai) asking the Govt of India-“When did i kill someone ?? So why dont you grant me a licence to keep a Gun ?? because a Great Montesory Scholar Sanjay say that i can keep a Gun”…… Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha..You wont understand the practicalities of this world TILL YOU GROW UP….. Ha..ha..ha..ha…Sanjay – AGAIN NO ANSWER HENCE I WIN THIS DEBATE……!!”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha..ha… Ha..ha..ha..ha… Kid crying like a sour loser….. Since you failed to give any valid logic for Karna/Eklavya’s validity to acquire celestial weapons, hence I wins the debate……. What do you want now ?? BUBBLEGUM OR CHOCOLATE ?? Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Your statement-“Sanjay -“Your confession of Ashwathama PUNCTURES the claim that Drona was the BEST TEACHER”. I did not say YOU claimed so…..”Sachin – Then why were you telling this to me ???? Sanjay – BECAUSE YOU FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THIS….!!”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha..ha… This is hilarious….. I claimed “Drona was not the BEST TEACHER”… then Sanjay said “No, you are wrong….Drona was not the BEST TEACHER”…. Then i said- “When did i say that Drona was the BEST TEACHER ??”…. The Sanjay replies-“YOU FAILED TO UNDERSTAND that Drona was not the BEST TEACHER…!!”…. Ha..ha..ha..ha… Ha..ha..ha..ha… What a comedy….!! This is the problem with this kid….. He himself doesnt know whether he wants BUBBLEGUM OR CHOCOLATE….. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Your statement-“Sachin – Well i already accepted that it was Karna NON-CAPABILITIES because of which he was forced to uses his Vasavi on Ghatotkach & to kill 1000’s of his own Kuru soldiers along with Ghatotkach….Sanjay – WHAT YOU ACCEPT IS NON-CONTEXTUAL….”

    My ans- Okay, but what Vyas MB is saying is indeed CONTEXTUAL… Right..?? And Vyas MB is saying that Karna was forced to use his best weapon-Vasavi on a 2nd line Pandava warrior(Ghatotkach)… hence this prove the INABILITIES of Karna as a warrior…..!! I rest my case your honour…. I won the debate…. Now What do you want ?? BUBBLEGUM OR CHOCOLATE ?? Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Your statement-“YOUR PUBLSIHER THEORY IS PUNCTURED HENCE I WIN THIS DEABTE….!!”

    My ans- I already proved that Ganesha Published Vyas MB….. Hence I won the debate…. Now What do you want ?? BUBBLEGUM OR CHOCOLATE ?? Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Your statement-“YOU ARE STILL CONFUSED ABOUT CELESTIAL WEAPONS & COULD NOT PROVE KARNA EARNED BRAHMA WEAPON WITHOUT TALENT HENCE I WIN THIS DEBATE….!!”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Arey Miyaan, first tell me What do you want ?? BUBBLEGUM OR CHOCOLATE ?? Ha..ha..ha..ha.. You wont understand that Moon is not Your “CHANDAA-MAAMA” untill you grow up….. And you also wont UNDERSTAND that “Talent” & “Acquring Celestial weapon” has no relation with each other….. So it is a meaningless debate….. But alteast tell me What do you want ?? BUBBLEGUM OR CHOCOLATE ?? Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Your statement-“DRONA’S ANGLE IS VERY MUCH CONTEXTUAL…”

    My ans- Okay, since you yourself accept that DRONA’S ANGLE was CONTEXTUAL… so this proves that Karna was a worthless warrior & no match to Arjun, because this was Drona’s opinion all throughout MB…… happy now…..

    Your statement-“ACTUAL PERFORMANCE – MATCHING ARJUN IN RANGSHALA & SWAYMWAR,”

    My ans- RANGSHALA performance has no value as compared to actual wars…. And in Swayamwar war, Karna lost to Arjun…..

    Your statement-“Karna WINNING WHOLE INDIA,”

    My ans- Utter LIE…. You failed to prove this…… Hence DONT TALK IN AIR…..

    Your statement-“REPELLING MULTIPLE ATTACKS INCULDING ARJUN ALONE”

    My ans- Utter LIE…. Prove this or DONT TALK IN AIR…..

    Your statement-“JARASANDH’S DEFEAT,”

    My ans- This only proves that Karna’s archery skills were Ordinary, because Karna failed to defeat Jarasandh in archery fight…..

    Your statement-“GHATOTKACH KILLING,”

    My ans- Already punctured above…. Had Karna not possessed Vasavi, then GHATOTKACH would have churned Karna…. as evidence by the previous fight between the two where Karna RAN AWAY from GHATOTKACH…..

    Your statement-“(karna firing)NAGASTRA”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. You poor Karna lovers….. You people are so desperate that you even glorify Karna for his FAILURES….. So failed to realise that Karna FAILED to kill Arjun with his Nagastra because KARNA MISSED THE TARGET….. so does it prove that Karna was TALENTED ?? TALENTED in MISSING the target ?? …. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Your statement-“(karna firing)BHARGAVASTRA”

    My ans- Huh…. Firing a celestial weapons does not make you talented…. Even Ashwatthama fired super powered celestial weapons, so does it make him talented….

    Your statement-“distance between Hastinapur and Kuruksehtra AT THE TIME OF MB was 172 km…Sanjay – YOU AGAIN FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THE FACT THAT TO PROVE ME WRONG YOU NEED TO PROVE YOUR POINT”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. This is just like the kid is saying that “Moon is my Chandaa-Mama… & this is the fact until u prove me wrong..!!” Ha..ha..ha..ha…
    Bottomline: WHO CARES WHAT KID SAYS….. You already lost this debate because you CHICKENED OUT & failed to prove your claim that “distance between Hastinapur and Kuruksehtra AT THE TIME OF MB was 172 km..”….. Your total CHICKEN COUNT till date= 23

    Long live Kindergarten classes….!!
    Long live Childish UNDERSTANDING….!!
    Long live Sanjay’s Chicken Counts…..!!
    Long live BUBBLEGUM & CHOCOLATES…..!! Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Like

  25. Dear Sanjay

    No, I am not brought up on Vedas. Like many other Hindus, I have also grown up studying puranas and some local translations of Ramayan-Mahabharat. And like all others, I have also formed the impression that Indra is a demi god and trinity is superior, Indra depends on Vishnu to secure his seat of heaven etc. Basically I like wars and thus I developed special interest in Mahabharat. So, to know it in detail, I studied KMG’s book. The war lover in me was so much satisfied that I read and reread the 5 parvas viz Bhishma, Drona, Karna, Shalya and Sauptika parvas as many times as I could.

    It is KMG that changed my perspective. Throughout this book, I have read some thousands of references to Indra as the greatest warrior. In comparision, there were hardly 10s of references to other gods including Vishnu and Rudra. This made me wonder, if Indra is a weakling who is defeated soundly by every rakshasa and saved by Vishnu etc, why were Aryans so desperate to make references to Indra? To confirm my doubt, I read the other great epic of ours viz Ramayan and there also I found hundreds of references to Indra. I knew this is no coincidence, there is something wrong with the puranas. And if puranas were right, why do they not agree with each other?

    KMG has also changed my perspective on religion. As I have observed, almost all the important characters of Mahabharat were having same goal – regions of bliss, no one was worried about God realization. No one was interested in singing and dancing Hare Ram/Hare Krishna etc. Every one had the same approach – perform as many sacrifices as possible, gratify as many brahmins as possible and secure as many regions of bliss as possible. Note that regions of bliss is used in the plural sense – regions and not region. This means there were many such regions. Each region was for those who performed some particular sacrifices or other good works. So, the more sacrifices you perform, the more regions of bliss you reserve for yourself.

    Another striking fact is, in Mahabharata, the word God is used very less times, on the other hand, it is the word creator that is used the most. So, the protector and destroyer aspects of God are ignored. And another important fact is this creator is addressed as self create, i.e, he created himself, so, there was a time when even this creator did not exist.

    Mahabharat also maks frequent reference to the word ordinance, which can be equated with Veda. It is this ordinance that was guiding their lives, shaping their philosophy. So, I wanted to explore this ordinance – Veda. I began with Rig Veda but till date could not finish reading it even once, leave alone mastering it. However, my study of Rig Veda double confirmed my opinions – that Indra was not a weakling but the greatest of all warriors of all times, that the real religion comprises of performing sacrifices and gratifying gods and brahmins and not singing and dancing. The real goal of human life is also immortality which has nothing to do with God.

    If Veda was the guiding force of all Aryans from the very ancient times of Ikshvaku and Manu to the times of Mahabharat, we can understand it’s status. Just because brains of kali yuga with little intellectual capacity fail to appreciate their supremacy or relevance, Vedas won’t become obsolete.

    Like

    1. Regarding your post, let us understand knowledge vs knower with an example.

      Is God aware of Himself? If No, then he is no God. If yes, then this awareness itself is knowledge. This itself proves that Knowledge is not created by God. If God created knowledge, then there should be a time when God existed but knowledge did not exist. And during this time, God was ignorant about everything because knowledge was not created, so no knowledge. Do we call an ignorant God as God? Even if we do, how can an ignorant God create knowledge? This strongly establishes that knowledge is not created by God.

      Let us assume that God and knowledge are both eternal and both independent of each other. But God created universe. Creation of universe requires Knowledge. So, God was Dependent on knowledge for creation of universe. But knowledge does not depend on God for its existence(because if knowledge ceases to exist, then God also ceases to exist).

      Summary is knowledge is not created by God, knowledge is also not dependent on God. On the contrary, God depends on knowledge. This proves knowledge is above God.

      Applying the same to the creator of science vs science, the creator of science cannot create science without science because creation itself involves science. So, science is never created. God is only knower of science and not creator of science. So, it is same as science vs scientist.

      Like

    2. Now, the most important topic of heaven vs kingdom of God. But before this, I wish to inform you that for now I won’t mind but in future do not make such comparisions of heaven and it’s seekers with pigs and beggars.

      There are three layers, the soul, the mind and the body. No layer can exist without other layers. That is why as soon as one dies, he obtains a subtle body in place of the physical body. He stays in this body until he obtains another physical body. This proves that soul and mind cannot exist without body(physical or subtle). If this is the case, how can soul alone exist without both mind and body? Further, soul is the same in all living beings. It is the mind and body that differentiate one living being from another. Mind commands the body and body obeys. Soul is simply inert and it neither does the work like body nor enjoys the fruit like the mind. So, having soul alone and not mind and body is akin to not having anything, that is, being non existant.

      Let us assume that heaven and God’s kingdom are both eternal. How many of us would seek God’s kingdom then? So, here the attraction is for eternality and not for God.

      Similarly, assume, there is God’s kingdom where God exists. If you enter into that Kingdom, you will never have to come back. You can always have God’s association. But you won’t have any bliss. Instead you will have torture. Now will you still seek God’s kingdom? How many will? So, this proves that the real attraction is for bliss(and absence of torture) and not for God or his association.

      Summary is everyone(from ordinary people to Brahmarshis) has the same desire. To have continuous bliss forever. God is desirable only as long as he is the source of bliss but no one desires him if he were the source of torture.

      So, if heaven can provide the same eternal bliss, what is the need for a kingdom of God? The kingdom of God is necessary to keep God popular. I mean, if Vishnu has to be popular, Vaishnavas should keep on propagating that Vaikunta alone is the permanent planet, all others are temporary, so if you want permanent bliss, worship Vishnu. The same applies to Shaivaites who propagate that Kailash alone is permanent which can be obtained only by worshipping Shiva. Similarly Jesus propagates that Kingdom of father alone is permanent which can be obtained through him alone.

      Those who don’t like idol worship propagate that Vishnu, Shiva etc are all inferior, there is a supreme God who is above form and name and he alone can give eternal bliss.

      But what matters to the common man is the bliss and not where it is coming from. If it is proven that Vishnu alone can give eternal bliss, no one will worship Shiva. That’s why I said why worship God unnaturally.

      Regarding your example of king vs beggar, king assigns some duties to his officials. If they fulfill their duties, they will be paid salary by him. On the other hand, a beggar does not do any work. He simply sings King’s praises. So, King may throw some maney at him but will not entertain him for long. Those who perform sacrifices are like officials and they get their salary in the form of at least temporary heaven. But those who simply sing God’s greatness but do no useful work are like beggars who don’t have any long time gains. I am saying useful works because it is believed that sacrifices cause rain which is useful for agriculture which further results in a rich and healthy state. No such benefit is to be seen from chanting.

      Like

  26. Sanjay -“You are big time confused about modalities of earning, using and giving celestial weapons.You are also confused about understanding the Talent as well as Responsibility aspect in exchange of such weapons.”

    Sachin – Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Lo kallo baat….. Ab montesory bachhe hamein gyaan denge….!! Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Sanjay – NO ANSWER HENCE I WIN THIS DEABTE….!!
    ============
    Sachin -“When did Karna/Eklavya kill common people?”

    Sanjay – Ha..ha..ha..ha.. This is just like a Local “Gunda” of Dharavi(Mumbai) asking the Govt of India-“When did i kill someone ?? So why dont you grant me a licence to keep a Gun ?? because a Great Montesory Scholar Sanjay say that i can keep a Gun”…… Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha..You wont understand the practicalities of this world TILL YOU GROW UP….. Ha..ha..ha..ha.

    Sanjay – AGAIN NO ANSWER HENCE I WIN THIS DEBATE……!!
    ===========

    Sanjay -““Your confession of Ashwathama PUNCTURES the claim that Drona was the BEST TEACHER”. I did not say YOU claimed so…..”

    Sachin – Then why were you telling this to me ????

    Sanjay – BECAUSE YOU FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THIS….!!
    =============
    Sanjay -“In war if a warrior is doing his job there would always be ripple effects. When warriors will shoot thousands of arrows soldiers are bound to die. That does not mean you will not kill your rival.”

    Sachin – Well i already accepted that it was Karna NON-CAPABILITIES because of which he was forced to uses his Vasavi on Ghatotkach & to kill 1000’s of his own Kuru soldiers along with Ghatotkach….

    Sanjay – WHAT YOU ACCEPT IS NON-CONTEXTUAL….SINCE YOU TURNED AWAY YOUR FACE FROM THE FACT GIVEN BY ME I WIN THIS DEABTE….!!
    ==========
    Sanjay -“YOU CHICKENED OUT:1. Sharing the name of PUBLISHING house”

    Sachin – So what do you want BUBBLEGUM OR CHOCOLATE ?? Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. NON-CONTEXTUAL childish question…..

    Sanjay – CHICKENING OUT PROVED…..YOUR PUBLSIHER THEORY IS PUNCTURED HENCE I WIN THIS DEABTE….!!
    ==========
    Sanjay -“You claimed Karna did not have Talent. I claimed if he did not have then he would have never got brahma weapon from Parasurama. Since he got it he proved his talent as well responsibility.”

    Sachin – And this baseless claim of yours was already punctured by me previously because just because a warrior(Karna) got a celestial weapon from his teacher(Parshuram), it does not prove that the warrior(Karna) was talented….. same was the case with “responsibility”…… Example is Drona-Ashwatthama…..

    Sanjay – YOU ARE STILL CONFUSED ABOUT CELESTIAL WEAPONS & COULD NOT PROVE KARNA EARNED BRAHMA WEAPON WITHOUT TALENT HENCE I WIN THIS DEBATE….!!
    =============

    Sanjay -“So your claim that Drona did not find talent in Karna is BASELESS.”

    Sachin – Karna had no talent is proved by his ACTUAL PERFORMANCE throughout MB where Karna got his ass kicked by every tom/dick/harry….. Drona’s angle is NON-CONTEXTUAL here….. I was just giving a homoural statement in response to your funny claim…..

    Sanjay – DRONA’S ANGLE IS VERY MUCH CONTEXTUAL….ACTUAL PERFORMANCE – MATCHING ARJUN IN RANGSHALA & SWAYMWAR, WINNING WHOLE INDIA, REPELLING MULTIPLE ATTACKS INCULDING ARJUN ALONE, DURYO’S SWAYMWAR, JARASANDH’S DEFEAT, GHATOTKACH KILLING, NAGASTRA, BHARGAVASTRA….SO YOUR CALIM IS BASELESS HENCE I WIN THIS DEBATE AS WELL…..!!
    ===========
    Sanjay -“3. You did not answer my question – Suppose You were given Brahma weapon by Drona despite knowing that you do not have the talent of firing and aiming it properly. Who will be bigger IDIOT – you or Drona…?”

    Sachin – Ha..ha..ha..ha… NON-CONTEXTUAL question….. point here is of “RESPONSIBILITY” & not of Talent….. Hence i dont need to answer your irrelevant question…..

    Sanjay – CHICKENED OUT AGAIN….HENCE I WIN THIS DEBATE ALSO….!!
    ==================

    Sanjay -“4. You failed to understand that I quoted present day distance between Hastinapur and Kuruksehtra. I never said it was same or different. Since you pointed out it was different so you need to prove that not me.”

    Sachin – Ha..ha..ha..ha… Typical childish point…. Miyaan it was you who claimed that the distance between Hastinapur and Kuruksehtra AT THE TIME OF MB was 172 km & so you were raising questions about Sanjay’s(the messenger) travel through this distance on regular basis…. So the onus is on you to prove your claim….. otherwise, you are considered as defeated…..

    Sanjay – YOU AGAIN FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THE FACT THAT TO PROVE ME WRONG YOU NEED TO PROVE YOUR POINT AND ALSO YOU AGAIN CHICKENED OUT FROM PROVING YOUR POINT HENCE I WIN THIS DEABTE HANDSOMELY…..!!

    Long live Ganesha Publications Pvt Ltd….!!
    Long live Confusions of Sachin….!!
    Long live Sachin’s Chickening Out….!!

    Long live Sachin, the entertainer…!!

    Like

  27. @ Sanjay

    You are absolutely right, Vedas stand for knowledge. Now think carefully and say which of the following two statements is true?

    1. Knowledge(ved) cannot exist without the knower(god)
    2. Knower cannot exist without Knowledge

    In other words, which is first – science or scientist?

    Regarding God realization, I have already said long time back that there is no additional benefit in kingdom of (original)God that cannot be obtained in Heaven. Why should we seek God then? Why should we love him unnaturally?(in expectation of his kingdom without which there is no reason to love him)

    Like

    1. A personal query – I think you have been brought up on Vedas?

      For knowledge to have its existence, existence of knower is the foremost requirement. By that logic knower is more important than knowledge. Thus eventually knower will become ‘Origin’ of knowledge. This means knowledge will dance to the tune of knower and not otherwise i.e. God is above Vedas. So it is not science v/s scientist but creator of science v/s science….

      Please do not take my statement otherwise but fact is even a pig is content with staying in filth all his life. That does not make filth suitable place. Similarly heaven may suit you but from absolute contentment perspective heaven does not serve my purpose. I do not like the idea of coming back to same filth (this world) after expiry of my tenure in heaven. Why not go somewhere which does not require me to come back at all? If a begger keeps asking a King for wealth he will be given in measures as and when required. But if he asks for king alone to be his all king’s wealth and power automatically becomes his. If you realise God what special can heaven or hell or this world (created by God) provide you?

      I will touch upon something extra – our soul is covered with three bodies viz. physical, astral and causal. Each body has mind attached to it which is the origin of good and bad thoughts leading to actions. Only pure soul detached from mind can enter God’s place. All other regions below that entertain astral or causal bodies with mind attached to it. So even in heaven if you remain slave to your mind you will keep behaving as you do here. It is our mind which keeps us attached to our surroundings forcing us to do good or bad karmas. This results in heaven and hell which is never ending cycle. Coming out of this cycle is actual Salvation….!

      Like

  28. Regarding Aswathama, he was ordered by Drona in the following way.

    Drona’s instructions to Aswa through Duryo

    O son of Dhritarashtra, I will not without slaying all the Panchalas, put off my armour. O king, go and tell my son Aswatthaman who is present in battle that even at the risk of his life he should not let the Somakas alone. 1 Thou shouldst also tell him, ‘Observe all the instructions thou hast received from thy father. Be firm in acts of humility, in self-restraint, in truth and righteousness. Observant of religion, profit, and pleasure, without neglecting religion and profit, thou shouldst always accomplish those acts in which religion predominates. The Brahmanas should always be gratified with presents. All of them deserve thy worship. Thou shouldst never do anything that is injurious to them. They are like flames of fire. As regards myself,

    Here Drona clearly instructed Aswa that he should not spare Somakas at any cost. They have to be killed.

    ——————————————————————————————————-

    Read the following passage which proves that the battle was not yet over, Aswa was installed as commander in chief by Duryo.

    Beholding the king in tears and grief, Drona’s son flamed up in anger like the fire that is seen at the universal destruction. Overwhelmed with rage, he squeezed his hand and addressing the king in a voice hoarse with tears, he said these words, “My sire was slain by those wretches with a cruel contrivance. That act, however, doth not burn me so keenly as this plight to which thou hast been reduced, O king! Listen to these words of mine that I utter, swearing by Truth itself, O lord, and by all my acts of piety, all my gifts, my religion, and the religious merits I have won. I shall today, in the very presence of Vasudeva, despatch all the Pancalas, by all means in my power, to the abode of Yama? It behoveth thee, O monarch, to grant me permission!” Hearing these words of Drona’s son, that were highly agreeable to his heart, the Kuru king addressing Kripa, said, “O preceptor, bring me without delay a pot full of water!” At these words of the king, that foremost of Brahmanas soon brought a vessel full of water and approached the king. Thy son then, O monarch, said unto Kripa, “Let the son of Drona, O foremost of Brahmanas, (blessed be thou), be at my command installed as generalissimo, if thou wishest to do me the good! At the command of the king, even a Brahmana may fight, specially one that has adopted Kshatriya practices! Those learned in the scriptures say this!” Hearing these words of the king, Kripa, the son of Saradwat, installed Drona’s son as generalissimo, at the king’s command! The installation over, O monarch, Ashvatthama embraced that best of kings and left the spot, having caused the ten points to resound with his leonine roars.

    ——————————————————————————————————–

    Kripa did not approve of Aswa’s proposal as he was not interested in the slaughter of pandavas.

    Aswa had three compelling reasons to do what he did.

    1. Order of his father
    2. Order of his king(Duryo is his king, not Dhritarastra)
    3. His own promise on all his religious merits.

    All rules of fair fight were broken many times by many warriors of both sides, so in such a serious situation(when Aswa alone has to fight with all pandava maharathis), how can we expect him to stick to righteousness??

    Regarding killing unborn Parikshit, if Yudhi is Duryo’s enemy, then he is Aswa’s enemy also. Similarly all successors of Yudhi are also enemies to Duryo/Aswa. What is surprising even in this? Aswathama was aiming Brahmashira. So, he was not harming Uttara in any way.

    Conclusion :- Aswathama certainly did an unrighteous act but who did not? Even highly moral Bhishma had to break rules of battle(He killed Sweta with Brahmastra), so there is nothing to speak about others. Regarding responsibility, after the night massacre, he was in Vyasa’s asram. It was pandavas(Bhima in particular) who tried to kill him forcing Brahmashira out of him.

    Regarding the statement all is fair in war, I have already posted above that war is not yet finished as the three survivors did not surrender, Duryo installed Aswa as commander and gave orders to him and more importantly, Yudhi did not replace Dhritarastra as the king.

    Like

  29. @ Sanjay,

    Your statement-“You are big time confused about modalities of earning, using and giving celestial weapons.You are also confused about understanding the Talent as well as Responsibility aspect in exchange of such weapons.”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Lo kallo baat….. Ab montesory bachhe hamein gyaan denge….!! Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Your statement-“When did Karna/Eklavya kill common people?”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha..ha.. This is just like a Local “Gunda” of Dharavi(Mumbai) asking the Govt of India-“When did i kill someone ?? So why dont you grant me a licence to keep a Gun ?? because a Great Montesory Scholar Sanjay say that i can keep a Gun”…… Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    You wont understand the practicalities of this world TILL YOU GROW UP….. Ha..ha..ha..ha.

    Your statement-““Your confession of Ashwathama PUNCTURES the claim that Drona was the BEST TEACHER”. I did not say YOU claimed so…..”

    My ans- Then why were you telling this to me ????

    Your statement-“In war if a warrior is doing his job there would always be ripple effects. When warriors will shoot thousands of arrows soldiers are bound to die. That does not mean you will not kill your rival.”

    My ans- Well i already accepted that it was Karna NON-CAPABILITIES because of which he was forced to uses his Vasavi on Ghatotkach & to kill 1000’s of his own Kuru soldiers along with Ghatotkach….

    Your statement-“YOU CHICKENED OUT:1. Sharing the name of PUBLISHING house”

    My ans- So what do you want BUBBLEGUM OR CHOCOLATE ?? Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. NON-CONTEXTUAL childish question…..

    Your statement-“You claimed Karna did not have Talent. I claimed if he did not have then he would have never got brahma weapon from Parasurama. Since he got it he proved his talent as well responsibility.”

    My ans- And this baseless claim of yours was already punctured by me previously because just because a warrior(Karna) got a celestial weapon from his teacher(Parshuram), it does not prove that the warrior(Karna) was talented….. same was the case with “responsibility”…… Example is Drona-Ashwatthama…..

    Your statement-“So your claim that Drona did not find talent in Karna is BASELESS.”

    My ans- Karna had no talent is proved by his ACTUAL PERFORMANCE throughout MB where Karna got his ass kicked by every tom/dick/harry….. Drona’s angle is NON-CONTEXTUAL here….. I was just giving a homoural statement in response to your funny claim…..

    Your statement-“3. You did not answer my question – Suppose You were given Brahma weapon by Drona despite knowing that you do not have the talent of firing and aiming it properly. Who will be bigger IDIOT – you or Drona…?”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha..ha… NON-CONTEXTUAL question….. point here is of “RESPONSIBILITY” & not of Talent….. Hence i dont need to answer your irrelevant question…..

    Your statement-“4. You failed to understand that I quoted present day distance between Hastinapur and Kuruksehtra. I never said it was same or different. Since you pointed out it was different so you need to prove that not me.”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha..ha… Typical childish point…. Miyaan it was you who claimed that the distance between Hastinapur and Kuruksehtra AT THE TIME OF MB was 172 km & so you were raising questions about Sanjay’s(the messenger) travel through this distance on regular basis…. So the onus is on you to prove your claim….. otherwise, you are considered as defeated…..

    Like

  30. Dear Mr Invincible,

    Your statement-“Although I don’t endorse Aswa’s actions of 18th night, but is he so evil that we should single him out as the only irresponsible warrior? Pandavas and Kauravas are already used to night battles like on 14th night.”

    My ans- Well action speaks lounder than words…… Ashwatthama’s actions clearly shows that he was an Irresponsible & Selfish character….. On 18th night, the war was already over, because Duryo was defeated & almost dead…. But still Ashwatthama plans to attack Pandavas camp at night to take his revenge….. BUT the RESPONSIBLE guy- Kripa advices Ashwatthama that they should not do such thing & they should go to Dhritrashtra for further orders:

    KMG quotes:

    “Let us, therefore, repair to Dhritarashtra and Gandhari and the high-souled Vidura and ask them as what we should do. Asked by us, they will say what, after all this, is for our good. We should do what they say.”
    ———————-

    So Kripa advices Ashwatthama to attack Pandavas next day morning:

    “Putting off thy armour and taking down thy standard, take rest for this night. I shall accompany thee, as also Kritavarman of the Satwata race, clad in mail and riding on our cars, while thou shalt proceed against the foe. United with ourselves, thou shalt slay the foes, viz., the Panchalas with all their followers, tomorrow in press of battle, putting forth thy prowess,”
    ————————

    But Ashwatthama knew that he cannot kill Panchals in a day war, hence he convinces Kripa to attack at night:

    “Protected as they are by Vasudeva and Arjuna, I regard them, O uncle, to be irresistible by the great Indra himself.”
    ———–

    Hence Kripa agrees to attack at night…. Although this act of Kripa(supporting Ashwatthama’s night attack) was also an IRRESPONSIBLE ACT…

    Now, after killing 5 sons of Draupadi, next day when Pandavas comes to Ashwatthama to grab him, then Ashwatthama also tries to kill/hurt Pandavas by fighting with them…..

    Point here is that, War was already over after Duryo’s fall…. But still Ashwatthama was continuing the fight for the sake of revenge…… This clearly proves Ashwatthama was a very IRRESPONSIBLE GUY….. if Ashwatthama had killed Pandavs by ANY fair/unfair means after the war was over, then who would have ruled over Hastinapur after Dhritarashtra ???? Dhritarashtra was already made weak with no support of warriors like Bhishma/Drona etc…. And there would have been a total kaos over whole india because most of the kingdoms of India were kingless & weak as their kings were dead in MB war…..

    It was Pandavas’ Ashwamedh Yagya because of which Pandavas captured whole India & hence provided the STABILITY & peace to whole India…..

    Like

  31. @Sachin,

    I was proved right as expected – Bowing down to Ganesha Publications Pvt Ltd, I expect more mental acrobatics of a GROWN UP KID….!!

    You are big time confused about modalities of earning, using and giving celestial weapons.

    You are also confused about understanding the Talent as well as Responsibility aspect in exchange of such weapons.

    When did Karna/Eklavya kill common people?

    You are confused in understanding my statement – “Your confession of Ashwathama PUNCTURES the claim that Drona was the BEST TEACHER”. I did not say YOU claimed so…..

    In war if a warrior is doing his job there would always be ripple effects. When warriors will shoot thousands of arrows soldiers are bound to die. That does not mean you will not kill your rival.

    YOU CHICKENED OUT:

    1. Sharing the name of PUBLISHING house

    2. You claimed Karna did not have Talent. I claimed if he did not have then he would have never got brahma weapon from Parasurama. Since he got it he proved his talent as well responsibility. So your claim that Drona did not find talent in Karna is BASELESS. You failed to prove me wrong.

    3. You did not answer my question – Suppose You were given Brahma weapon by Drona despite knowing that you do not have the talent of firing and aiming it properly. Who will be bigger IDIOT – you or Drona…?

    4. You failed to understand that I quoted present day distance between Hastinapur and Kuruksehtra. I never said it was same or different. Since you pointed out it was different so you need to prove that not me. You FAILED to prove that also.

    Like

  32. Mr I – First it was posted by you that Anurag sagar by Kabir explains the real status of Vedas and many other things. But after Googling about Kabir and this book, I found that kabir had no respect for vedas and condemned rituals. That is why I said who is kabir to comment on the authority of vedas? Kabir’s magic formula is chant ram ram but don’t read any books, it will lead you to salvation. Just as Kabir got no proof for the validity of rituals, we also have got no proof from him on the validity of naam-sankirtan.

    Sanjay – Vedas originate from word “Vid’ meaning knowledge. Knowledge cannot be supreme due to its limited life span….
    Real status of Vedas is in reference to God realization. Vedas have limitation in that aspect. Anyone who is interested in realizing God like Kabir, Nanak, Jesus, and other saints would then obviously ignore Vedas. This does not mean disrespect but knowing the REALITY. Since Vedas stress on rituals they would also be condemned because their significance and objective lose its relevance over a period of time thus giving rise to various social evils like caste system, Sati, bali etc. People forget objective of God realization and get entangled in these rituals. Every saint is sanctioned his own magic formula (Diksha) by Almighty which is beyond the understanding of ordinary people. Naam is stressed in Guru-granth sahib, Bible, Quran and by all saints of the world irrespective of time and place….it is universal magic formula having sound and light. Vedas give selective indication of this as NAAD / Akashvaani. To realize God one needs to ignite these faculties internally by meditation. Vedas for meditation recommends Oum as the highest realm of God which is among the lower planes of creation as per Saints’ spiritual itinerary. Therefore they can comment comprehensively on status of Vedas.

    Kabir says:
    Pothi padhi padhi jag mooua pandit bhaya na koye
    Dhai akshar prem ke padhe so Pandit hoye

    (World perished while reading scriptures yet none could attain knowledge of God, the one who is in deep love of God can only realize him)

    Bulleshah says:
    Ved-Quranan padh padh thakke, Sajdeyan kardeyan ghis gaye maththe
    Na rab teerath na rab make, Jin paya tin Noor anwar

    (Vedas and Quran are exhausting, worshipping them are attempts in vain…god is neither in Hindu pilgrims nor in Mecca he can only be realized in the Divine Light (Naam / Shabd / Kirtan / Vaani / Naad / Word / Logas / Tao…..)

    Mr I – As I said earlier, Veda is of higher authority than God, so, it has not originated anywhere but it is eternal. For the non sanskrit speaking world, they have to approach learned Brahmins. Take the example of some latest technology which is available only with Russia and is in Russian language. If the rest of the world wishes to know it, then the scientists of Russia have to be approached. The impartiality angle of God is invalid because Veda is above God.

    Sanjay – This is what Vedas mislead us to think. How can an instruction exist in the absence of instructor? Vedas do have their creator otherwise why did Vedas allow so many religions and thoughts to emerge and spread confusion? If Vedas were supreme then why do they praise Niranjan – Swyambhu? Even learned brahmins are not free from desire, anger, greed, passion and ego. How can they erase these vices in others by reciting Vedas? Inspite of India having Vedas how many learned Brahmins we had? Ravan was not only an authority on Vedas but a commentator on them as well but we all know his doings. So Vedas also fail to serve their purpose which means there is indeed some higher entity superseding them.

    Mr I – Salman’s lawyer knows real status of Salman but Kabir does not know(much less determine) the real status of Vedas.

    Sanjay – By this example I meant, that lawyer knows Salman is not worth emulating in real life despite being a famous celebrity. He will not like his beloved son to become Salman if he wants him to be responsible citizen. Similarly saints preach people to focus on God realization instead of getting swayed by Vedas and its rituals which will keep them captivated in this world.

    Mr I – Although I don’t endorse Aswa’s actions of 18th night, but is he so evil that we should single him out as the only irresponsible warrior? Pandavas and Kauravas are already used to night battles like on 14th night.

    Sanjay – It was in reference to the responsible aspect of a warrior. He proved himself irresponsible by attacking Uttara’s feotus as well. Night fights in war field is different from attacking sleeping enemy.

    Like

  33. @ Sanjay,

    Your statement-“A weapon was to be given to RESPONSIBLE warrior by Teacher BUT when warrior gets them he can distribute them to anybody he likes…..??”

    My ans- Childish NON-CONTEXTUAL point….. You wont understand the practicalities of limitations of a Teacher, TILL YOU GROW UP….. Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Your statement-“Look at this IDIOT….if such things happen then why blame Duryo & party? If that is your EXCUSE then I can also say since Duryo had promised Karna that he would make him king when they would grow up so he should ask for Brahma weapon from Drona to kill Arjun. What was wrong in that either…..?? ”

    My ans- Well well well… The dhakkan “Pravachann Baba” is back with his Idiotic antics….. Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Arey Dhakkan, a “Responsible King/Prince” is supposed to be Protector of his population/common public….. But one king/prince killing other king/prince to make sure he himself remain as the King of his kingdom as been the age old practice of mythological India….. So does it mean all kings/Princes of India were IRRESPONSIBLE…?? What an Idiot……!!

    Duryo tried to Poison Bhima/kill Pandavas for the sake of Kingdom, but Duryo did not kill his common population just for the sake of fun…… So it does not make Duryo an irresponsible prince for his Citizens…..

    But such thing was not sure about Karna/Eklavya, hence Drona rightfully rejected their demands…..

    Your statement-” Your confession of Ashwathama PUNCTURES the claim that Drona was the BEST TEACHER. If he could not mend his son how could he mend other students. This also proves that he lacked capability to assess students which was proved by Karna.”

    My ans- “Dhakkan Baba” with his “Dhakkan Pravachann”….. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Miyaan, when did i say that Drona was the best teacher ??? Paglaa gaye ho kya…??? I simply proved that Drona was a Selfish father, hence he gave powerful weapons to his Irresponsible Son-Ashwatthama, which Drona didnt even give to Arjun…..

    And Drona rightly assessing the capability Karna has been proved by Karna himself with his failures all thoughout MB…. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Your statement-“what irresponsibility…?? You only said everything is FAIR IN WAR…..that was Karna’s job…”

    My ans- Offcourse everything is fair in a war…. But the point here was of RESPONSIBILITY…… If Karna was responsible, then he would have tried to kill Ghatotkach without using Vasavi, which could have saved life of thousands of soldiers of Kurus as well [1 Akshoushini sena of both sides]… But Karna could not….. Although i blame the NON-CAPABILITY of Karna in this event rather than irresponsibility…..

    Your statement-“Sachin – Karna’s resonsibility as a friend of duryo has been seen in Drupad war/Gandharva war/1st 10 days of Mb war etc……Sanjay – Already PUNCTURED MANY TIMES……Ha…ha….ha…..ha…ha….”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Sorry, i could not understand… What did you say ?? Koookdoooookooooooooo ??? Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Your statement-“We feel ENTERTAINED just by looking at your name against new post…..so please spare us from your efforts of making us smile!!… Koookdoooookooooooooo …. Koookdoooookooooooooo …. Koookdoooookooooooooo … hence I win this debate…!!”

    My ans- Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Miyaan, if doing only Koookdoooookooooooooo wins you the debate then keep doing it… because NOBODY CARES WHEN A CHICKEN DOES HIS KOOK-DOOO-KOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNN….. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Your statement-“Suppose You were given Brahma weapon by Drona despite knowing that you do not have the talent of firing and aiming it properly. Who will be bigger IDIOT – you or Drona…?”

    My ans- Simple answer….. its you who is an IDIOT, just like your question….. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Your statement-“Theek hai fleet mein kuchh jets kum kar do aur Steroids ke dose bhi kum kar do…..now you tell me where was it geographically….? DO NOT CHICKEN OUT ON THIS ALSO…..!!”

    My ans- Arey Dhakkan, its you who claimed that present day hastinpaur & Kurukshetra are the same which were there during MB period, so the onus is on you to prove your claim…… Otherwise, keep doing your Koookdoooookooooooooo , because NOBODY CARES WHEN A CHICKEN DOES HIS KOOK-DOOO-KOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNN….. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha.. Ha..ha..ha..ha..Ha..ha..ha..ha..

    Like

  34. Although I don’t endorse Aswa’s actions of 18th night, but is he so evil that we should single him out as the only irresponsible warrior? Pandavas and Kauravas are already used to night battles like on 14th night.

    Like

  35. @ Sanjay

    First it was posted by you that Anurag sagar by Kabir explains the real status of Vedas and many other things. But after Googling about Kabir and this book, I found that kabir had no respect for vedas and condemned rituals. That is why I said who is kabir to comment on the authority of vedas? Kabir’s magic formula is chant ram ram but don’t read any books, it will lead you to salvation. Just as Kabir got no proof for the validity of rituals, we also have got no proof from him on the validity of naam-sankirtan.

    As I said earlier, Veda is of higher authority than God, so, it has not originated anywhere but it is eternal. For the non sanskrit speaking world, they have to approach learned Brahmins. Take the example of some latest technology which is available only with Russia and is in Russian language. If the rest of the world wishes to know it, then the scientists of Russia have to be approached. The impartiality angle of God is invalid because Veda is above God.

    Salman’s lawyer knows real status of Salman but Kabir does not know(much less determine) the real status of Vedas.

    Like

  36. Sachin – Well my post of “Ganesh publishing VYas MB” wss addressed to Matured bloggers, hence your funny & NON-CONTEXTUAL reply is worthless as usual……
    For our Matured bloggers(who know the meaning of word PUBLISHED), here is another line from KMG which proves the fact that Vyas MB book was PUBLISHED:
    “The Rishi Vyasa PUBLISHED this mass of knowledge in both a detailed and an abridged form, It is the wish of the learned in the world to possess the details and the abridgement.”

    Sanjay – Arrey I am supporting your theory baba..! A PUBLISHER is supposed to have PUBLISHING HOUSe or NOT? Now don’t tell me that it is a KID’s thought…! Okay if you have problem with the name we can think of something better like Shiva & Sons or Shiva-Parvati enterprise or Kailash family etc…! I will wait which one suits you better….Please DO NOT CHICKEN OUT..!

    Sachin – So does it prove that TEACHERS(like Drona/Parshuram) distributed celestial weapons to tom/dick/harry ??? Kuch bhi….. Miyaan thoda to dimaag lagao….. Read my line again:”Celestial weapons were not HALWA’s that every TEACHER used to distribute it readily to every damn student of his

    Sanjay – Now you are exposing your AGE, UNCLE….! A weapon was to be given to RESPONSIBLE warrior by Teacher BUT when warrior gets them he can distribute them to anybody he likes…..?? Now it is my turn to repeat your dialogue – Kuch bhi….. Miyaan thoda to dimaag lagao….HA…HA…..HA….HA…..HA….HA..HA..

    Sachin – Rubbish, Childish & NON-CONTEXTUAL personal opinion…. Hence itself Punctured,…. My example was absolutely right…..

    Sanjay – Arrey UNCLE, do you read newspaper or not? Or you find them also to be INTERPOLATED…..YOUR EXAMPLE WAS ABSURD AS USUAL…!!

    Sachin – Non-contextual example of Duryo, because in royal politics such things happens(poisoning bhima)…… But regarding Ashwathama, Yes i agree, it was Drona’s fault that because of his blind Fatherly love he gave all super weapons to his irresponsible son-Ashwathama (which Drona didnt even give to Arjun)….. I already raised this point of SELFISH Drona previously…..

    Sanjay – HA..HA….HA….HA….HA…HA….HA…HA….HA….HA… HA..HA….HA….HA….HA…HA….HA…HA….HA….HA HA..HA….HA….HA….HA…HA….HA…HA….HA….HA HA..HA….HA….HA….HA…HA….HA…HA….HA….HA HA..HA….HA….HA….HA…HA….HA…HA….HA….HA HA..HA….HA….HA….HA…HA….HA…HA….HA….HA
    Look at this IDIOT….if such things happen then why blame Duryo & party? If that is your EXCUSE then I can also say since Duryo had promised Karna that he would make him king when they would grow up so he should ask for Brahma weapon from Drona to kill Arjun. What was wrong in that either…..?? Your confession of Ashwathama PUNCTURES the claim that Drona was the BEST TEACHER. If he could not mend his son how could he mend other students. This also proves that he lacked capability to assess students which was proved by Karna. THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT…I WIN THIS DEBATE…..

    Sachin – NON-CONTEXTUAL point….. Karna’s irresonsibility has been seen when he used a WMD-Vasavi to kill a 2nd line Pandava warrior-Ghatotkach, along with it full 1 Akshoushini sena(of both sides) were killed…..

    Sanjay – I can see you CHINCKENING OUT umpteen times by using Non-contextual….. what irresponsibility…?? You only said everything is FAIR IN WAR…..that was Karna’s job…so what do you want now GROWN UP KID? Your DOUBLE DHOLAKI HAS BEEN EXPOSED……
    HA..HA….HA….HA….HA…HA….HA…HA….HA….HA… HA..HA….HA….HA….HA…HA….HA…HA….HA….HA HA..HA….HA….HA….HA…HA….HA…HA….HA….HA HA..HA….HA….HA….HA…HA….HA…HA….HA….HA HA..HA….HA….HA….HA…HA….HA…HA….HA….HA HA..HA….HA….HA….HA…HA….HA…HA….HA….HA

    Sachin – Karna’s resonsibility as a friend of duryo has been seen in Drupad war/Gandharva war/1st 10 days of Mb war etc……

    Sanjay – Already PUNCTURED MANY TIMES……Ha…ha….ha…..ha…ha….

    Sachin – Well, this line was a humoral response to your HAWA-MAHAL point of “Let us say Drona did not see talent in Karna then he cannot claimed to be BEST because Karna proved him wrong by earning it from Parasurama.”
    So first you show the text from KMG that Parshruam gave Brahmastra to Karna because Karna was TALENTED….Then i will prove my point…..

    Sanjay – We feel ENTERTAINED just by looking at your name against new post…..so please spare us from your efforts of making us smile!! CHICKENED OUT AGAIN….. CHICKENED OUT AGAIN….. CHICKENED OUT AGAIN….. CHICKENED OUT AGAIN….. CHICKENED OUT AGAIN….. CHICKENED OUT AGAIN….. CHICKENED OUT AGAIN….. CHICKENED OUT AGAIN….. CHICKENED OUT AGAIN….. CHICKENED OUT AGAIN….. CHICKENED OUT AGAIN…..hence I win this debate…!!

    Sachin – Point here was that if someone receives a Celestial weapons from his guru, so IT DOES NOT PROVE that he is TALENTED (Drona-Ashwatthama example)….. SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY is the most important factor…..

    Sanjay – Another IDIOTIC theory…….ha…ha…..ha….ha….ha….ha….ha….!!
    Suppose You were given Brahma weapon by Drona despite knowing that you do not have the talent of firing and aiming it properly. Who will be bigger IDIOT – you or Drona…?
    Do NOT CHICKEN OUT ON THIS ALSO…..!!

    Sachin – Your post about Duryo (poisoning bhima) is already punctured above….. Regarding Drona, yes i accept that he could not produce ALL resposible warriors(e.g. Ashwatthama) because of his selfish nature…..

    Sanjay – Haainnn…?? Arey you PUNCTURED your own accusations on Duryo & Party by justifying act of Duryo….IDIOTISM at its BEST…..!

    Sachin – My ans- Who told you that the present Day Hastinapur and Kurukshetra were EXACTLY the same geographical areas which were there during MB times ????? And Sanjay did not visit daily to Hastinapur from Kurukshetra, but he may have visited Dhritrashtra after every important happening of Mb war (like death of Mahrathis-Bhishma, Drona, Abhimanyu etc)….
    Satyaki capturing Sanjay on 18th day at Kurukshetra has been mentioned in VYas MB….. Satyaki later released him …..

    Sanjay – Theek hai fleet mein kuchh jets kum kar do aur Steroids ke dose bhi kum kar do…..now you tell me where was it geographically….? DO NOT CHICKEN OUT ON THIS ALSO…..!!

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  37. Karna status was thrashed by tom dick harry ha ha lol. This award should go to arjuna who got thrashed by bandits. Infact No warrior has achieved this. Ie if at all a warrior lost it was to trained warriors. Arjuna is the only warrior with dubious distinction to cut a sorry figure in front of petty thieves. Bhima was beaten black and blue by kritverma alayudha bhagdatta ( a warrior conquered by karna ) and thrashed in groups attacks on karna and booted away One group attack included arjuna as well. And lets not forget him being dragged like a dog by karna with his bow. Paglet saxenas dhakosla on divyastras already punctured in my previous post.

    Like

  38. @ Sanjay,

    Well my post of “Ganesh publishing VYas MB” wss addressed to Matured bloggers, hence your funny & NON-CONTEXTUAL reply is worthless as usual……

    For our Matured bloggers(who know the meaning of word PUBLISHED), here is another line from KMG which proves the fact that Vyas MB book was PUBLISHED:

    “The Rishi Vyasa PUBLISHED this mass of knowledge in both a detailed and an abridged form, It is the wish of the learned in the world to possess the details and the abridgement.”
    ——————–

    Now, lets see your other post:

    Your statement-“But you only opined that Arjun would distribute his celestial weapons to Pandavas….?? You made them HALWA not me by posting that every Tom / dick / Harry was firing them in Kurukshetra….short term memory Loss..??”

    My ans- So does it prove that TEACHERS(like Drona/Parshuram) distributed celestial weapons to tom/dick/harry ??? Kuch bhi….. Miyaan thoda to dimaag lagao….. Read my line again:”Celestial weapons were not HALWA’s that every TEACHER used to distribute it readily to every damn student of his”

    Your statement-“Yeah and many among those responsible citizens use them in road rage or burglary….GUN cheese hi aisi hai Responsible ko bhi GUNDA bana deti hai…Waise your example was as absurd as usual!”

    My ans- Rubbish, Childish & NON-CONTEXTUAL personal opinion…. Hence itself Punctured,…. My example was absolutely right…..

    Your statement-“Royal prince Duryo set classic example of being Responsible when he poisoned Bhima. Brahmin Ashwathama achieved heights of greatness when he massacred sleeping enemy and attacked foetus of Uttara. Hence you are a GROWN UP KID….”

    My ans- Non-contextual example of Duryo, because in royal politics such things happens(poisoning bhima)…… But regarding Ashwathama, Yes i agree, it was Drona’s fault that because of his blind Fatherly love he gave all super weapons to his irresponsible son-Ashwathama (which Drona didnt even give to Arjun)….. I already raised this point of SELFISH Drona previously…..

    Your statement-“AND Karna never used Brahma weapon IRRESPONSIBLY thus making mockery of your MATURITY”

    My ans- NON-CONTEXTUAL point….. Karna’s irresonsibility has been seen when he used a WMD-Vasavi to kill a 2nd line Pandava warrior-Ghatotkach, along with it full 1 Akshoushini sena(of both sides) were killed…..

    Karna’s resonsibility as a friend of duryo has been seen in Drupad war/Gandharva war/1st 10 days of Mb war etc……

    Your statement-“AND PLEASE KINDLY ENLIGHTEN ALL OF US WHEN DID DRONA DISCOVER THAT KARNA DID NOT HAVE TALENT…?? Show the text from KMG and DO NOT CHICKEN OUT…!!”

    My ans- Well, this line was a humoral response to your HAWA-MAHAL point of “Let us say Drona did not see talent in Karna then he cannot claimed to be BEST because Karna proved him wrong by earning it from Parasurama.”

    So first you show the text from KMG that Parshruam gave Brahmastra to Karna because Karna was TALENTED….Then i will prove my point…..

    Your statement-“Arrey yaar, first you decide what is required to acquire celestial weapon – talent or sense of responsibility? Do you mean to say Parasurama, the Guru of Drona, so-called BEST PERCEPTOR was so dumb that he gave weapon to a TALENTLESS student?”

    My ans- Point here was that if someone receives a Celestial weapons from his guru, so IT DOES NOT PROVE that he is TALENTED (Drona-Ashwatthama example)….. SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY is the most important factor…..

    Your statement-“Already punctured with facts of Duryo and Ashwathama. Drona was neither BEST PERCEPTOR nor could make RESPONSIBLE warriors.”

    My ans- Your post about Duryo (poisoning bhima) is already punctured above….. Regarding Drona, yes i accept that he could not produce ALL resposible warriors(e.g. Ashwatthama) because of his selfish nature…..
    ——————————

    Now, lets have some Comedy…

    Your statement-“Sachin! you forgot to mention that Sanjay was provided fleet of supersonic jets to cover distance of 172 km between Hastinapur and Kurukshetra every now and then.”

    My ans- Who told you that the present Day Hastinapur and Kurukshetra were EXACTLY the same geographical areas which were there during MB times ????? And Sanjay did not visit daily to Hastinapur from Kurukshetra, but he may have visited Dhritrashtra after every important happening of Mb war (like death of Mahrathis-Bhishma, Drona, Abhimanyu etc)….

    Satyaki capturing Sanjay on 18th day at Kurukshetra has been mentioned in VYas MB….. Satyaki later released him …..

    Like

  39. @ Sanjay,

    How can persons like Kabir be an authority to comment on Vedas? I have read books of many sages(of modern times) but the only one who impressed me with his knowledge of vedas and scholarship is Maharshi Dayananda saraswathi, the founder of Arya Samaj. Although I don’t agree with him entirely, but I think it is O.k, if scholars like him comment on Vedas but not those who do not know sanskrit and those who have never researched Vedas. Infact the entire Bhakthi movement is unauthentic as it is based on puranas.

    Mahabharat is clear on the stand that both destiny and exertion are instrumental in a person’s success.

    Let us leave the matter of Drona – a good or bad teacher here as there seems to be no scope of consensus.

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    1. You think Vedas are end of world? Then did they come out of nowhere? somebody might have spoken or written them….!!

      If Vedas in Sanskrit were ultimate does that mean rest of the world which does not know Sanskrit has no maai-baap..? Has Supreme God left them at their own mercy…??

      I do not think so….Kabir is not claiming authority on something whose REALITY he does not know. Salman Khan has immense fan following but his lawyer knows THE REALITY what he has ACTUALLY done to be in a legal tangle…..!! This does not mean Vedas are derogatory BUT they have limitations in providing God realisation….

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  40. A section of the post of the Karna hater
    “My ans- Simple answer…. I already explained this in the previous discussion on this topic…. Celestial weapons were not HALWA’s that every teacher used to distribute it readily to every damn student of his….. Celestial weapons were weapons of mass destructions, hence the Teacher had to hand it over to his RESPONSIBLE & deserving students only…..”
    My reaction a little surprise that he has boon pooh poohing celestial weapons but now celestial weapons are so powerful that any one cant get them only responsible and deserving students only. Where as ordinary arrows which are MORE MORE powerful ( as per his theories ) were distributed like kadha prasad from a gurdwara ( I came across this word in the film Patiala House starring Rishi Kapoor and Akshay Kumar ) Now I know he will say divyastras cant kill maharathis but they can kill soldiers hence Drona was worried about soldiers when he refused braham weapon. But MB is quite clear in refusing brahma weapons its arjuna orientation from both Karna and drona point of view. Arjuna had brahma weapons karna wanted it and drona refused. Ordinary arrows irrelevant.

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  41. Bowing down to Ganesha Publications Pvt Ltd, I intend to answer a GROWN UP KID….

    Sachin – Simple answer…. I already explained this in the previous discussion on this topic…. Celestial weapons were not HALWA’s that every teacher used to distribute it readily to every damn student of his….. Celestial weapons were weapons of mass destructions, hence the Teacher had to hand it over to his RESPONSIBLE & deserving students only…..

    Sanjay – But you only opined that Arjun would distribute his celestial weapons to Pandavas….?? You made them HALWA not me by posting that every Tom / dick / Harry was firing them in Kurukshetra….short term memory Loss..??

    Sachin – E.g. today, Govt of India gives licence to possess a GUN for self defense to RESPONSIBLE citizens ONLY…… The do not give licence to any tom/dick/harry/Gundas of India….. So that the Power of a GUN should not be MISUSED……

    Sanjay – Yeah and many among those responsible citizens use them in road rage or burglary….GUN cheese hi aisi hai Responsible ko bhi GUNDA bana deti hai…Waise your example was as absurd as usual!

    Sachin – Similarly, Royal princes of Hastinapur(Kurus/Pandavas) were responsible warriors, because they were supposed to PROTECTORS of common people….. and Brahmins were also considered as responsible Citizens at that time, hence Drona readly imparted the knowledge of Celestial weapons to Kuru/Pandavas/ashwatthma….. But Karna was neither a Royal prince nor a RESPONSIBLE citizen because he wanted the Brahmastra only to kill Arjun to prove himself superior to Arjun….. Hence Drona was right in rejecting Karna for Brahmastra…..

    Sanjay – Royal prince Duryo set classic example of being Responsible when he poisoned Bhima. Brahmin Ashwathama achieved heights of greatness when he massacred sleeping enemy and attacked foetus of Uttara. Hence you are a GROWN UP KID….

    Sachin – But Karna fooled Parshuram by claiming himself as BRAHMIN, hence Parshuram gave all Celestial weapons to Karna thinking that he was a RESPONSIBLE Brahmin, but when Parshuram found out the truth, it was too late…. But Parshuram instantly threw Karna out of his school…..

    Sanjay – AND Karna never used Brahma weapon IRRESPONSIBLY thus making mockery of your MATURITY

    Sachin – Well, when it comes to talent, Drona was absolutely right when he judged the talent of Karna as a worthless warrior…. Because Karna himself proved his Worthless talent by getting thrashed by even tom/dick/harrys & running away from almost every battle of his life……

    Sanjay – AND PLEASE KINDLY ENLIGHTEN ALL OF US WHEN DID DRONA DISCOVER THAT KARNA DID NOT HAVE TALENT…?? Show the text from KMG and DO NOT CHICKEN OUT…!!

    Sachin – And FYI, Karna earned Brahmastra from Parasurama by CHEATING(by claiming himself as Brahmin) & not on the basis of his talent…..

    Sanjay – Arrey yaar, first you decide what is required to acquire celestial weapon – talent or sense of responsibility? Do you mean to say Parasurama, the Guru of Drona, so-called BEST PERCEPTOR was so dumb that he gave weapon to a TALENTLESS student? I have told you YOU ARE ONE OF YOUR KIND WHEN IT COMES TO USING YOUR BRAIN…

    Sachin – Typical immature arguement….. Miyaan, Teachers were supposed to Produce “Responsible warriors” who could protect the society, rather than teaching “Gundas” who would harm the society….. Only your immature brain will think that Drona should have taught every tom/dick/harry of India(like Karna, Eklavya etc) with all celestial weapons & then he should have made every student to fight with each other & make them kill each other, so as to know who was the BEST among them…..!! In REAL matured world such things does not happen…. it may happen in your childish dreams…..

    Sanjay – Already punctured with facts of Duryo and Ashwathama. Drona was neither BEST PERCEPTOR nor could make RESPONSIBLE warriors. Your post proves DREAMING is not copyright of immatures but of GROWN UP KIDS as well….

    Bowing down to Ganesha Publications Pvt Ltd, I expect more mental acrobatics of a GROWN UP KID….!!

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  42. Sachin – Since our dear friend-Sanjay has lost his mind totally & his “No UNDERSTANDING” quality is further going strong…

    Sanjay – Yeah…yeah…it happened in this blog only…BUT I understand this much that you are again back with your ICONIC ideas to entertain us….Thank you Baby…! Let’s see what is it this time….

    Sachin – So my below post is only for Intellectual matured bloggers of this Blog:

    Sanjay – Yeah…yeah…we know you want to talk to yourself..!! Go ahead…..

    Sachin – Regarding the STRANGE event of Vyas dictating MB to Ganesha & Ganesha writing it down….

    Sanjay – I know everything in MB is STRANGE for you….the only STRANGE thing for us is that you do not find yourself STRANGE…..!

    Sachin – One can easily see that this is also an INTERPOLATED part of the MB story….

    Sanjay – Lo….we have another INTERPOLATION. Is somebody out there keeping a count of Sachin’s discoveries….?? I am sure he himself has lost the count by now…!

    Sachin – Reason is: – Why would Vyas need Ganesha to just write his dictation ?? Because Vyas himself was educated enough to read & write….. Further Vyas had many diciples of his own to do his writing job…..

    Sanjay – Because Rambhas, Urvashis and Menakas of the world refused to be his PA….they were busy with Indra. Sachin I think Ved Vyas and his disciples were indeed holding doctorate in education like you BUT they did not have beautiful handwriting of Ganesha. To write ORIGINAL MB beautiful handwriting was equally important else it was very easy for INTERPOLATORS to INTERPOLATE MB by inserting their ICONIC IDEAS in bad handwriting….! You know you may get some other medicine if prescription is in bad handwriting…?? So it was like that..! Okay, move ahead…..

    Sachin – Now, the Practical aspect of this story explains all these STRANGE events, as follows:
    1. When Sanjay(the messenger), with the help of 100’s of his informers, used to collect all the information of MB war from Kurukshetra & when Sanjay used to come to Hastinapur(from Kurukshetra) at intervals, he used to narrate everything to Dhritrashtra…. And the Royal Historian present there, used to write everything & every part of the discussion which is going on between Sanjay & Dhritrashtra…. Ved Vyas simply took this written literature of that Royal Historian & converted them into Sholks & put them in his MB book AS IT IS….. That is why we see the whole MB war description as “Dhritrashtra asking & Sanjay replying”…..
    The first book of Vyas called “Jay” contained only this 18 day Mb war description…..

    Sanjay – Now even word PRACTICAL has also started feeling STRANGE….!! Achha Sachin! you forgot to mention that Sanjay was provided fleet of supersonic jets to cover distance of 172 km between Hastinapur and Kurukshetra every now and then. War took 18 days to finish off because warriors were distracted by jets flying over their heads. Some thought they were birds, some thought they were UFO’s, some thought celestials were watching war, some thought they were Drone spying them, some thought ALIENS…Sanjay had to be injected with extra dose of Steroids to sustain this never ending relay race for 18 days…. Waise I find Ved vyas a better Poet than Doctor because his TEST TUBE invention failed as soon as it was reported by you but his Poetic work is still surviving YOUR ASSAULTS….!!

    Sachin – 2. Later, Vyas added the preceding stories of MB & life profiles of various characters of MB into this book, which was subsequently named as “Vijay”, “Bharat” & then “Mahabharat”….

    Sanjay – Okay fine BUT I am dying to get enthralled by your revelations so let us move forward….

    Sachin – 3. Now Vyas converted the whole MB story into Shloks form….. But Vyas wanted to PUBLISH his book so that whole India should read his book, hence he needed a PUBLISHER…. But none of the Publishers of India agreed to PUBLISH the book of Vyas… May be because this book was too lengthy…..

    Sanjay – AND he settled for Ganesha Publishing Pvt Ltd. Correct? I am sure he was promised highest Royalty on his book by this PUBLISHING HOUSE. Can you name few of those PUBLISHERS who were fortunate to escape your TORTURE..? Don’t forget my question, okay..!

    Sachin – 4. Hence Vyas went to Brahma(Education minister ?) for the help….
    KMG quotes:
    “Then the greatly glorious Vyasa, address- ing Brahma Parameshthi, said, “O divine Brahma, by me a poem hath been composed which is greatly respected. The mystery of the Veda, and what other subjects have been explained by me ; the various rituals of the Upanishads with the Angas ; ……….the nature of the manners of the people ; and the all-pervading spirit ; all these have been represented. But, after all, NO WRITER OF THIS WORK IS TO BE FOUND ON EARTH”

    Sanjay – Oh My God! What a revelation – Brahma was Education Minister…!! Sachin now NATION wants to know names of other Cabinet Ministers of that time….

    Sachin – Then Brahma advices Ganesha’s name to Vyas….. And Ganesh agreed …. So ultimately Ganesh Published the MB book of Vyas….

    Sanjay – I can sense nefarious nexus between the Education Minister and PUBLISHER here. They schemed to have monopoly in the publishing market by avoiding any tenders from other PUBLISHERS for this big project. I wish there was some Kejriwal to demand Lokpal…anyway go ahead…

    Sachin – 5. Mb book was published in total 13 Volumes:
    KMG quotes:
    “This work is a tree, of which the chapter of contents is the seed ; the divisions called Pauloma and Astika are the root ; the part called Sambhava is the trunk ; the books called Sabha and Aranya are the roost- ing perches ; the books called Arani is the knitting knots ; the books called Virata and Udyoga the pith ; the book named Bhishma, the main branch ; the book called Drona, the leaves ; the book called Kama, the fair flowers ; the book named Salya, their sweet smell ; the books entitled Stri and Aishika, the refreshing shade ; the book called Santi, the mighty fruit ; the book called Asiuamedha, the immortal sap ; the denominated Asramavasika, the spot where it groweth ; and the book called Mausala, is an epitome of the Vedas and held in great respect by the vrituous Brahmanas. The tree of the Bharata, inexhaustible to mankind as the clouds, shall be as a source of livelihood
    to all distinguished poets.’”

    Sanjay – 113 bhi hoti to koi kya ukhad leta? Royalty best hona chahiye, volumes to kitni bhi likhwa lo…Aur likhni to PUBLISHER ne hai, Ved Vyas ka kya jaata hai…? Education Minister ka bhi backing hai….

    Sachin – 6. Now, when Vyas approached Ganesh, may be at that time Vyas had not completed all the work of converting whole story into Sholks… only partial work had been done…. hence Ganesha put the condition that once he finish Printing the initial volumes of MB, by that time Vyas should complete writing the Sholks of later volumes of MB, so that the “Printing Process” should not stop…… This event has been Interpolated as Ganesha putting condition on Vyas that his “Pen” should not stop writing……. May be because Ganesha was a busy Publisher, hence he wanted to finish publishing this Huge MB book as soon as possible….
    KMG quotes:
    “Ganesa, upon hearing this address, thus answered, ‘I will become the writer of thy work, provided my pen do not for a moment cease writing.’”

    Sanjay – Hmmmm…Makes sense…even Ganesha knew his PUBLISHING business would shut down after PUBLISHING ORIGINAL MB. So he wanted to ensure that PRINITNG PRESS should be utilized to the maximum. Depreciation on assets was too high…investors would cry Returns….Vendors would ask for their payments etc..lot of issues to be tackled..!

    Sachin – So ultimately the MB book was published & distributed all over India….

    Sanjay – Chalo kaam sampoorn hua..!! Achha ab itna bhi bata do Book launch kaun se celebrity ne kiya tha? Please do not hide all your revelations….ab aisa bhi kya ki saare India ko tarasta chhod do yahan tak la ke?

    Sachin – Over the time & generations, the printed books of Mb were lost, but since this book was in poetry(shloks) form, hence the scholars/rishis/diciple learnt & remembered it & kept on reciting from generations to generation until 4th Century BC when this book was again Printed in Sanskrit during Gupta dynasty…..

    Sanjay – Who was the PUBLISHER this time? Were tenders floated or not? Was Royalty fixed and paid as per agreement? Who took the dictation this time? AND most important of all questions – WHO WAS THE EDUCATION MINISTER?

    Sachin – Had Vyas not written MB in Shloks form, then this story would not have survived for 6000 years….

    Sanjay – I thought it DID SURVIVE till you discovered it and rest, as they say, is history. Today we have MB re-created as Sachin Bharat….and guess what? Niraj and myself are at the receiving end. Few fortunate who could not stay long here are still in shock – yeh kya hua, kaise hua, kyun hua, kab hua….??

    Sachin – Because remembering a Poem is much easier then remembering a story….. When we read MB, we are reading a piece of 6000 year old REAL History of India…. Amazing.. isnt it…..!!

    Sanjay – And it is much easier to remember Mental acrobatics then remembering anything worth remembering. This blog will stay record not just for 6000 years but even beyond that because it has recorded REAL MENTAL ACROBATICS originating from your brain. Amazing.. isnt it…..??

    Long live Ganesha Publications Pvt Ltd….!!

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  43. @ Sanjay,

    Your statement-“it boils down to same question of mine – Why was Karna in Drona’s ashram if he was not supposed to get brahma (or celestial) weapon?”

    My ans- Simple answer…. I already explained this in the previous discussion on this topic…. Celestial weapons were not HALWA’s that every teacher used to distribute it readily to every damn student of his….. Celestial weapons were weapons of mass destructions, hence the Teacher had to hand it over to his RESPONSIBLE & deserving students only…..

    E.g. today, Govt of India gives licence to possess a GUN for self defense to RESPONSIBLE citizens ONLY…… The do not give licence to any tom/dick/harry/Gundas of India….. So that the Power of a GUN should not be MISUSED……

    Similarly, Royal princes of Hastinapur(Kurus/Pandavas) were responsible warriors, because they were supposed to PROTECTORS of common people….. and Brahmins were also considered as responsible Citizens at that time, hence Drona readly imparted the knowledge of Celestial weapons to Kuru/Pandavas/ashwatthma….. But Karna was neither a Royal prince nor a RESPONSIBLE citizen because he wanted the Brahmastra only to kill Arjun to prove himself superior to Arjun….. Hence Drona was right in rejecting Karna for Brahmastra…..

    But Karna fooled Parshuram by claiming himself as BRAHMIN, hence Parshuram gave all Celestial weapons to Karna thinking that he was a RESPONSIBLE Brahmin, but when Parshuram found out the truth, it was too late…. But Parshuram instantly threw Karna out of his school…..

    Your statement-“Now my counter question is Drona saw talent in Arjun but not in Karna? If he saw then as BEST PERCEPTOR was it not his responsibility that he should guide Karna on how to get Brahma weapon and how to use it productively? Instead he played caste card to nip talent in the bud itself. Let us say he did not see talent in Karna then he cannot claimed to be BEST because Karna proved him wrong by earning it from Parasurama.”

    My ans- Well, when it comes to talent, Drona was absolutely right when he judged the talent of Karna as a worthless warrior…. Because Karna himself proved his Worthless talent by getting thrashed by even tom/dick/harrys & running away from almost every battle of his life……

    And FYI, Karna earned Brahmastra from Parasurama by CHEATING(by claiming himself as Brahmin) & not on the basis of his talent…..

    Your statement-“If Vishwamitra and Agastya gave Rama higher weapons when he became accomplished warrior then Drona could have done same instead of playing caste card, is my argument. He would have made Karna work hard and even harder to make him realize what does Brahma weapon mean…!”

    My ans- Typical immature arguement….. Miyaan, Teachers were supposed to Produce “Responsible warriors” who could protect the society, rather than teaching “Gundas” who would harm the society….. Only your immature brain will think that Drona should have taught every tom/dick/harry of India(like Karna, Eklavya etc) with all celestial weapons & then he should have made every student to fight with each other & make them kill each other, so as to know who was the BEST among them…..!! In REAL matured world such things does not happen…. it may happen in your childish dreams…..

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  44. Dear Mr I,

    I am not clear on what you think of GOD to be. But if you want to expand your understanding of such things then I recommend Anurag Sagar by Kabir Sahib. Although there are other sacred books which also reveal what AS says but AS is more focused on puzzling questions about this creation. It explains real status of Vedas, Trinity, Gods and their role and even about Kaal who is ruling all of them. If you want I can re-post summary of AS which I posted to Niraj few months back.

    Your statement that ‘Although Brahma is superior to other gods, his role is mostly ceremonial like our president’s, while the real administration is carried out by gods led by Indra’ is another way of saying Devas’ coterie represents support system.

    Not only Karna and Eklavya but each and all sundry’s life was, is and will be pre-destined. I reasoned destiny to explain my point that even intervention by Ved Vyas could not provide justice to Karna because other factors like his friendship with Duryo and rivalry with Arjun would have anyhow pushed him in the same situation. Ved Vyas was a spiritual personality who knew of this fact and intervened till the point he was supposed to but Drona was acting like ordinary human who was not detached to world affairs. So his thoughts and actions reflected human behavior which is susceptible to praise as well criticism and I chose to criticise.

    Your statement – Parasurama was clearly displeased by Karna’s behaviour. If Karna has said that he was a suta, a former disciple of Drona and wanted to learn Brahmastra to kill Arjuna, then would Parashurama have accepted him?

    My answer – He was displeased with his behavior but was pleased with his capabilities and talent. This is why he said that no other Kshatriya would be a match to him. Now my counter question is Drona saw talent in Arjun but not in Karna? If he saw then as BEST PERCEPTOR was it not his responsibility that he should guide Karna on how to get Brahma weapon and how to use it productively? Instead he played caste card to nip talent in the bud itself. Let us say he did not see talent in Karna then he cannot claimed to be BEST because Karna proved him wrong by earning it from Parasurama. Even if we do not argue on these points then also it boils down to same question of mine – Why was Karna in Drona’s ashram if he was not supposed to get brahma (or celestial) weapon?

    Your reason for choosing Ashwathama has substance in it.

    I do not know how you arrived at ages of Karna and Eklavya. If the basis is longer life span during dwapar yuga then 33 is no mature but innocent age only when living over centuries was normal. If your calculation basis is Karna taking birth much before Pandavas then that would place Karna in the age of around 80 during Kurukshetra war. 33 years in Drona’s ashram + at least another 10 years with Parasurama + 12 years of Arjun’s exile + 13 years of Pandavas exile + at least 10 years for Pandavas’ ruling in Indraprastha when nothing special happened…. We also hear Abhimanyu was around 16 years when he died and he was already an accomplished warrior. If we go by that yardstick then Karna cannot be double his age in Drona’s ashram. If he was then Abhimanyu was of much higher age to be fighting such strategic war. By the same yardstick Eklavya just began his learning when he was handicapped. This means either Abhimanyu’s age is GLORIFICATION or Eklavya’s age was even lesser than 16 years….

    If Vishwamitra and Agastya gave Rama higher weapons when he became accomplished warrior then Drona could have done same instead of playing caste card, is my argument. He would have made Karna work hard and even harder to make him realize what does Brahma weapon mean…!

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