7,896 thoughts on “Greatest Warrior of All Time

  1. @Sachin,

    I invoked you in this blog so your presence becomes SUPERNATURAL hence INVALID….ha….ha…!
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    Your statement-“Sorry Sanjay, you already proved your immaturity about this…. Hence i dont feel any reason to argue with you on this topic…..

    My ans – Let us see…!

    Your statement – Parasurama was one teacher for one student Karna, hence it means that Karna did not get any Moral science teaching…..

    My ans – Karna was well versed in Vedas which were source of all knowledge….”The first of all successful persons, he soon mastered the sciences. And when the intelligent one having truth for his strength RECITED THE VEDAS, there was nothing he would not then give to the Brahmanas”. It establishes that Karna had COMPLETE EDUCATION under Parasurama ONLY. This proves my point CORRECT and your point INCORRECT…..!
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    Your statement – If Bhishma also had Parshuram as his teacher, then why did he have another teacher-Vasishta for his moral education ?? Was Bhishma not satisfied with Parshuram’s moral education ??? Kuch bhi….. Kindergarten discussion….

    My ans – Bhishma having multiple teachers itself proves my point i.e. other educations were as important for students as education of warfare. This means even Kuru princes had to have all those educations. If Drona was their royal preceptor he was ought to give other educations as well or else they would remain ILLITERATE which your theory is making them to be. So this point of mine also gets established.
    Now there is a strong reason of Bhishma having multiple teachers by default and not by choice as well. However that reason would challenge your mindset. Ganga being celestial being took infant Bhishma with herself to her abode where celestial rishis like Vasishatha and Vrihaspati used to teach. So he got those educations there. Parasurama was among humans so Bhishma got warfare education from him because Bhishma would eventually reside on earth with Shantanu.
    Another point – CHILD Bhishma was already through with his entire and complete education when Shantanu took him back to Hastinapur. This means he was already a King material which Kuru princes were not by the time Drona was appointed their teacher so their complete education was still due hence all the more need to have other educations from Drona alone.
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    Your statement-“Bhishma was a great warrior, but he was not a great teacher.,…. During the time of Pandu/Dhritrashtra’s education, Bhishma COULD NOT GET them a Good Ear teacher, hence he was FORCED to teach them war education….. But during the time of Kuru princes, Kripa was available & later a great teacher-Drona came begging to Hastinapur, hence Bhishma grabbed this opportunity & Made Drona the Royal teacher…… Why settle for a Ordinary Teacher(Bhishma), when you have a great teacher(Drona) available…

    My ans – How can you say Bhishma was not a good teacher? Pandu had significant achievements as invincible warrior and Vidura was also well-educated and an intelligent minister. He became their teacher despite existence of Parasurama, Agnivesa, Kripa and Drona etc at that time. Hence my question has a strong base and you need to answer WHY HE COULD NOT TEACH KURU PRINCES? Another point – if you consider Drona as great then he was ought to know other subjects as well which further proves my point that Drona DID teach other subjects also apart from warfare…..
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    Your statement – Typical Kindergarten arguement….. If a 2nd line Pandava warrior(Ghatotkach) can take care of a 2nd line Kuru warrior(Karna) at night, so why should the BEST Pandavas warrior(Arjun) flow his sweat to fight with the 2nd line Kuru warrior(Karna)…..

    My ans – Ignorant reply. If that is your reason then you are bound to answer WHY COULD FIRST LINE WARRIOR (ARJUN) NOT FACE SECOND LINE WARRIOR (KARNA) EVEN AFTER KILLING OF SECOND LINE WARRIOR (GHATOTKACH)? It was same night…..since it never happened it meant that either Arjun did not have the GUTS to face Karna in night or he never knew night fight.
    ==============

    Your statement – Karna already made the mockery of his Night fighting Skills, when he RAN AWAY from Ghatotkach in the first round in Night fight & later had to resort to his BEST WEAPON(Vasavi) to stop a 2nd line Pandava warrior(Ghatotkach)….. And you comparing Karna’s skill with Arjun ??? Huhhh….

    My ans – In the wake of my above answer this statement of yours becomes non-contextual, laughable and Invalid…..
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    Your statement-“Sorry Sanjay… the MATURED world does not think your way…. So be happy with your KG UNDERSTANDING…. because nobody cares…..

    My ans – MATURE KMG’s MB also thinks my way when it says Arjun was practicing archery and not night fight…..so your caring or not caring is meaningless….!
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    Your statement – Kindergarten point…. Noboday cares what a Kindergarten kid says…..

    My ans – Again my point of motivational technique is proven beyond point by Arjun practicing in night…..once again your caring or not caring is meaningless….!
    ==============

    Your statement-“U again missed one imp point: Drona killed Drupad WHEN DRONA HAD THE BACK UP OF HASTINAPUR ARMY & SUPPORT STAFF…. Got the point Miyaan…??

    My ans – By that yardstick Pandavas also prevailed over Gandharavas because of Kauravas’ army…??? If army and support staff is the reason then it proves that Gurudakshina and Virat war are indeed GLORIFIED INTERPOLATIONS……!
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    Your statement-“NON-CONTEXTUAL EXCUSE….. It still does not refute the fact that DRONA COULD NOT kill Drupad on his own (without the help of Hastinapur army+Support staff)

    My ans – Tomorrow you will say he could not kill Drupad without bow and arrows as well….ha…ha….funny EXCUSE. Can you name the charioteer or horse or elephant or support staff or leader of the army of Drona who killed Drupad if not Drona? Was Drupad fighting without army and support staff? Kuchh bhi…..?? Going by same logic of yours Arjun also needed Shakhandi to remove Bhishma so he was also incapable? He needed out of all warriors a eunuch to contain Bhishma…?? Ha…ha…ha…Good, if your answer is YES then I do not mind agreeing to this fact either….!
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    Your statement-“NON-CONTEXTUAL EXCUSE….. Hence itself punctured…..

    My ans – Calling presence of CHAMPIONS as NON-CONTEXTUAL EXCUSE mocks your own MATURITY and years of admiring Pandavas so I do not need to say anything more if you are contradicting your own claims…..!
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    Your statement-“Illogical Puntured points….AND Supernatural point…. already punctured previously during my debate with Mr I…

    My ans – Sorry KMG shuts you up on this. What you or Mr I think or agree does not mean anything…!
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    Your statement – Ha..ha…ha…ha…. Age old LIE…. Prove that Arjun lost to dacoits Or DONT TALK IN AIR….

    My ans – By your definition of defeat Arjun was indeed defeated like Alice in Wonderland. He could not prevent dacoits from doing their job.

    My statement-“For your decayed OLD mind let me insist for another of nth time that I find Virat war as IMPRACTICAL and / or GLORIFICATION…”

    Your ans- WHO CARES WHAT A Kindergarten kid thinks….!!

    My reply – So you find it PRACTICAL…?? Ha…ha….ha…ha..ha…ha….ha….ha…I am ready to pardon it as your Vacation hangover as of now….!!

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    1. This vacation of his was dhakosla. He was doing a wait and watch tactic. He was thinking that I had left the blog hence when sure that I am gone he came back with his worthless posts like bhima conquering Karna at Rajsuya ( an incident which has been punctured by karna fans so many occasions that the salman khan chedi sing dialogue applicable on it ) geedadh sher ke absence mein hi dahad sakta hai hence when sure I am not around he came to conquer.

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      1. Level one level two warrior logic a bigger dhakosla than his vacation. Level four warrior conquered by karna ie bhagdatta gives bhima thrashing still bhima > Karna. Main karna se nafrat kartoo hoon is written on his back side something similar to what amitabhs hand showed in deewar ie mera baap chor hai. Except Amitabh was hero Sachin is the comedian.

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  2. Old habits die hard. That was me not Sachin. I know this irritates him a lot and after this joke he goes abusive on me. I am hoping he would try something similar on the personal front. I see history repeating. I will retaliate with same force give him a taste of his own medicine he will go crying and boo hooing to Dhruv with a fond hope that I am banned from this blog providing karna fans some more entertainment in the process.

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  3. Thats right niraj,sanjay. so what if you give me documented evidence I will keep harping the same crap every time ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. After all I am sachin the eternal court jester so what I cant nullify the points I can keep repeating them like a parrot ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

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  4. such a fresh point of karna running away from ghatotkacha. how many times this point has been nullified god knows. next point would be as follows bhima vs karna bhima thrashed karna 10 times karna zero. where as in the group attacks in which bhima attacked karna and karna booting them away quoted on umpteen ocassions but then we cant forget the milking ceremony in which bhima was involved when his co warriors were getting booted away. ( this too temporarily forgeting bhimas yuppy dog status on battle day 14)

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  5. @ Sanjay,

    Thanks for the concern Sanjay, but dont worry… everything’s fine at my end… I was out of station for Vacation for a week, hence could not reply you……

    Your statement-“Parasurama was one teacher for one student Karn. This itself proves your maturity level in understanding MB. Another point by your MATURED FACTS which appear is that you are saying Kuru princes required so-called moral science till Drona joined them and never later on in their lives?”

    My ans- Sorry Sanjay, you already proved your immaturity about this…. Hence i dont feel any reason to argue with you on this topic…..

    Parasurama was one teacher for one student Karna, hence it means that Karna did not get any Moral science teaching….. If Bhishma also had Parshuram as his teacher, then why did he have another teacher-Vasishta for his moral education ?? Was Bhishma not satisfied with Parshuram’s moral education ??? Kuch bhi….. Kindergarten discussion….

    Your statement-“why did Bhishma not teach Kuru princes himself if he could be war teacher to dhritrashtra, Pandu and Vidura….??”

    My ans- Bhishma was a great warrior, but he was not a great teacher.,…. During the time of Pandu/Dhritrashtra’s education, Bhishma COULD NOT GET them a Good Ear teacher, hence he was FORCED to teach them war education….. But during the time of Kuru princes, Kripa was available & later a great teacher-Drona came begging to Hastinapur, hence Bhishma grabbed this opportunity & Made Drona the Royal teacher…… Why settle for a Ordinary Teacher(Bhishma), when you have a great teacher(Drona) available…

    Your statement-“if Arjun learnt NIGHT FIGHT despite Drona CHEATING him then why did he decide NOT TO FACE Karna in night?”

    My ans- Typical Kindergarten arguement….. If a 2nd line Pandava warrior(Ghatotkach) can take care of a 2nd line Kuru warrior(Karna) at night, so why should the BEST Pandavas warrior(Arjun) flow his sweat to fight with the 2nd line Kuru warrior(Karna)…..

    Karna already made the mockery of his Night fighting Skills, when he RAN AWAY from Ghatotkach in the first round in Night fight & later had to resort to his BEST WEAPON(Vasavi) to stop a 2nd line Pandava warrior(Ghatotkach)….. And you comparing Karna’s skill with Arjun ??? Huhhh….

    Your statement-“You cannot mention what is childish in my reasons of night practice but I can always say practicing in night is not learning night fight.”

    My ans- Sorry Sanjay… the MATURED world does not think your way…. So be happy with your KG UNDERSTANDING…. because nobody cares…..

    Your statement-“no food in dark was proved to be motivational ploy which made Arjun extend his practicing hours…!”

    My ans- Kindergarten point…. Noboday cares what a Kindergarten kid says…..

    Your statement-“That is the point Miyaan…..Drona killed Drupad proves he was capable but what you think does not prove anything”

    My ans- U again missed one imp point: Drona killed Drupad WHEN DRONA HAD THE BACK UP OF HASTINAPUR ARMY & SUPPORT STAFF…. Got the point Miyaan…??

    Your statement-“Same army was used in Gurudakshina war also so army is as irrelevant as your EXCUSE”

    My ans- NON-CONTEXTUAL EXCUSE….. It still does not refute the fact that DRONA COULD NOT kill Drupad on his own (without the help of Hastinapur army+Support staff)

    Your statement-“Drupad also had the support of FIVE CHAMPIONS among whom ONE was the so-called SELF-MADE BEST….this BEST was supposed to have defeated Drupad without any army in glorified fictional event thus exposing the REAL capability of Drupad….!!”

    My ans- NON-CONTEXTUAL EXCUSE….. Hence itself punctured…..

    Your statement-“Ashwathama was already ahead of Kuru princes and required separate time slot so no special favours.”

    My ans- Illogical Puntured points….

    Your statement-“Narayanastra was not given by drona hence absurd justification.”

    My ans- Supernatural point…. already punctured previously during my debate with Mr I…

    Your statement-“So then let us go by ACTUAL EVENTS and accept that Arjun was NOT BEST but even lower than an ORDINARY WARRIOR because he lost to dacoits…”

    My ans- Ha..ha…ha…ha…. Age old LIE…. Prove that Arjun lost to dacoits Or DONT TALK IN AIR….

    Your statement-“For your decayed OLD mind let me insist for another of nth time that I find Virat war as IMPRACTICAL and / or GLORIFICATION…”

    My ans- WHO CARES WHAT A Kindergarten kid thinks….!!

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  6. @Sachin,

    I hope All is Well at your end……Awaiting..!

    Sanjay on May 22, 2016 at 5:41 pm

    1. Further to prove your KIDDISH understanding of MB you need to give valid answer from MB itself why did Bhishma not teach Kuru princes himself if he could be war teacher to dhritrashtra, Pandu and Vidura….?? DO NOT CHICKEN OUT!

    2. Your ans- Statement in MB have no value in front of ACTUAL EVENTS….. And the ACTUAL EVENTS of “Secret classes to Ashwatthama”, “No food to Arjun in dark” etc clearly punctures your claim….
    My reply – So then let us go by ACTUAL EVENTS and accept that Arjun was NOT BEST but even lower than an ORDINARY WARRIOR because he lost to dacoits…..Awaiting your confirmation. DO NOT CHICKEN OUT!

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  7. @Sachin,

    My answer to your FIVE MATURE statements is simple – Parasurama was one teacher for one student Karn. This itself proves your maturity level in understanding MB. Another point by your MATURED FACTS which appear is that you are saying Kuru princes required so-called moral science till Drona joined them and never later on in their lives? Do you really feel such thought even qualify for something serious stuff called MATURITY???
    Further to prove your KIDDISH understanding of MB you need to give valid answer from MB itself why did Bhishma not teach Kuru princes himself if he could be war teacher to dhritrashtra, Pandu and Vidura….?? DO NOT CHICKEN OUT!
    ————–
    My statement-“If Karna and Kurus were clueless in night fight what special achievement did Arjun have in the night? Even he could not kill clueless Karna in the night”

    Your ans- Invalid point…… Arjun did not face Karna at night…..

    My answer – If Arjun was the BEST because he became BEST by himself, if Arjun learnt NIGHT FIGHT despite Drona CHEATING him then why did he decide NOT TO FACE Karna in night? This means either Arjun never learnt night fight or he was afraid of facing competent warriors in the night. Anyway this still cannot negate the fact that Arjun DID NO SIGNIFICANT TASK in night fight whether in relation to Karna or some other warrior. Hence my point is highly VALID and UNDSIPUTED!
    ———————-
    My statement-“I gave you long list of reasons. If you are MATURE you can have your own pick…and let all of us know which one is your choice.”

    Your ans- Ha..ha…ha…. You are yourself Clueless about your Childish REASONS of “Night Practice”, so even you could not pick the Valid reason…. So you youself punctured your own funny claims….

    My answer – You cannot mention what is childish in my reasons of night practice but I can always say practicing in night is not learning night fight. I dare you to prove me wrong…..!
    —————–

    Your ans- I already told you, Arjun was PRACTICING to LEARN NIGHT FIGHTING…..

    My reply – That is your personal opinion and speculation hence INVALID and CHILDISH. Text says he was PRACTICING ARCHERY….period!
    ————-
    My statement-“Mb clearly mentions that Drona didnt even want Arjun to get the idea of night fight & Practice it…Your answer – ha…ha….ha..ha…show me text from KMG mentioning so….”

    Your ans- “No food to Arjun in the dark” event clearly proves that…..

    My reply – Already PUNCTURED……no food in dark was proved to be motivational ploy which made Arjun extend his practicing hours…!
    ——————–
    Your ans- Ha..ha…ha…. That is te point Miyaan…. Drona was clear from the first day that he wasnt capable enough to take on Drupad Alone… hence he came to Hastinapur for help…..

    My reply – Ha..ha…ha…. That is the point Miyaan…..Drona killed Drupad proves he was capable but what you think does not prove anything
    ——————-

    Your ans- Miyaan, Drona had back up of Hastinpaur army(& support Maharathis) in MB war, that is why he could kill Drupad….. It does not mean that Drona could have killed Drupad(with his army) alone….

    My reply – Ha….ha….ha…..ha….your logics cann’t get any funnier than this…Same army was used in Gurudakshina war also so army is as irrelevant as your EXCUSE….Drupad also had the support of FIVE CHAMPIONS among whom ONE was the so-called SELF-MADE BEST….this BEST was supposed to have defeated Drupad without any army in glorified fictional event thus exposing the REAL capability of Drupad….!!
    —————–
    Your ans- Well, the actual events of “Secret classes to Ashwatthama”, “Narayanastra only possessed by Ashwatthama” etc clearly proves this,…… If you cant understand that its your KG problem…..

    My reply – Ashwathama was already ahead of Kuru princes and required separate time slot so no special favours. Narayanastra was not given by drona hence absurd justification. You never understood the ACTUAL events qualifying for demotion to PRE-Primary!
    ——————-

    Your ans- Statement in MB have no value in front of ACTUAL EVENTS….. And the ACTUAL EVENTS of “Secret classes to Ashwatthama”, “No food to Arjun in dark” etc clearly punctures your claim….

    My reply – So then let us go by ACTUAL EVENTS and accept that Arjun was NOT BEST but even lower than an ORDINARY WARRIOR because he lost to dacoits…..Awaiting your confirmation. DO NOT CHICKEN OUT!
    —————–
    Your ans- So we agree that since you cannot prove VIRAAT WAR AS SUPERNATURAL hence I WIN that debate ….. Ha..ha…ha…. Got the point Sanjay Miyaan…..

    My reply – For your decayed OLD mind let me insist for another of nth time that I find Virat war as IMPRACTICAL and / or GLORIFICATION……since you cannot even understand the point of disagreement between us there is NO CHANCE YOU CAN EVER WIN ON THAT….Got the point Sachin Miyaan…!!

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  8. Sanjay this crap statement of karna running away from ghatotkacha is not even worth replying but lets visit ghatotkacha though

    Beholding a celestial weapon aimed at him by Karna, Ghatotkacha, that foremost of Rakshasas invoked into existence his Rakshasa illusion. He was seen surrounded by a large force of terrible-looking Rakshasas, armed with lances, large rocks and hills and clubs. 2 Beholding Ghatotkacha advancing with a mighty weapon uplifted (in his hands) like unto the Destroyer himself of all creatures armed with his fierce and fatal club, all the kings there were struck with fear. Terrified at the leonine roars uttered by Ghatotkacha, the elephants passed urine all the combatants trembled with fear. Then there fell on all sides a thick rain of rocks and stones poured incessantly by the Rakshasas, who had, in consequence of midnight, became inspired with greater strength. 3 Iron wheels and Bhusundis, and darts, and lances and spears and Sataghnis and axes also began to fall incessantly. Beholding that fierce and terrible battle, all the kings, as also thy sons and the combatants, fled away in fear. Only one amongst them, viz., Karna, proud of the power of his weapons, and feeling a noble pride, trembled not. Indeed, with his shafts he destroyed that illusion invoked into existence by Ghatotkacha. Beholding his illusion dispelled, Ghatotkacha, filled with rage began to shoot deadly shafts from desire of slaying the Suta’s son. Those shafts, bathed in blood, piercing through Karna’s body in that dreadful battle, entered the earth like angry snakes. Then the valiant son of the Suta, filled with rage and possessed of great lightness of hands, prevailing over Ghatotkacha, pierced the latter with ten shafts. Then Ghatotkacha, thus pierced by the Suta’s son in his vital parts and feeling great pain,
    OBSERVATION: FRIENDS T.V. SERIALS SHOW KARNA FIRING ARROWS AT GHATOTKACHA BUT HE FEELS NOTHING IS WRONG ABOVE PHRASE CLEARLY SHOWS HIM BEING PIERCED BY KARNA AND IN PAIN.
    took up a celestial wheel having a thousand radii. The edge of that wheel was sharp as a razor. Possessed of the splendour of the morning sun, and decked with jewels and gems, Bhimasena’s son hurled that wheel at the son of Adhiratha, desirous of making an end of the latter. That wheel, however, of great power and hurled also with great might, was cut off into pieces by Karna with his shafts, and fell down, baffled of its object, like the hopes and purposes of an unfortunate man. Filled with rage upon beholding his wheel baffled, Ghatotkacha covered Karna with showers of shafts, like Rahu covering the sun. The Suta’s son, however, endued with the prowess of Rudra or of Indra’s younger brother or of Indra, fearlessly shrouded Ghatotkacha’s car in a moment with winged arrows. Then Ghatotkacha, whirling a gold-decked mace, hurled it at Karna. Karna, however, with his shafts, cutting it off, caused it to fall down. Then soaring into the sky and roaring deep like a mass of clouds, the gigantic Rakshasa poured from the welkin a perfect shower of trees. Then Karna pierced with his shafts Bhima’s son in the sky,that Rakshasa acquainted with illusions, like the sun piercing with his rays a mass of clouds. Slaying then all the steeds of Ghatotkacha, and cutting also his car into a hundred pieces, Karna began to pour upon him his arrows like a cloud pouring torrents of rain. On Ghatotkacha’s body there was not even two finger’s breadth of space that was not pierced with Karna’s shafts. Soon the Rakshasa seemed to be like a porcupine with quills erect on his body. So completely was he shrouded with shafts that we could not in that battle, any longer see either the steeds or the car or the standard of Ghatotkacha or Ghatotkacha himself. Destroying then by his own weapon, the celestial weapon of Karna, Ghatotkacha, endued with the power of illusion, began to fight with the Suta’s son, aided by his powers of illusion. Indeed, he began to fight with Karna, aided by his illusion and displaying the greatest activity. Showers of shafts fell from an invisible source from the welkin. Then Bhimasena’s son, endued with great prowess of illusion, O foremost of the Kurus, assumed a fierce from, aided by those powers, began to stupefy the Kauravas, O Bharata! The valiant Rakshasa, assuming many fierce and grim heads, began to devour the celestial weapons of the Suta’s son. Soon again, the gigantic Rakshasa, with a hundred wounds on his body seemed to lie cheerlessly, as if dead, on the field.
    OBSERVATION HERE WE SEE GHATOTKACHA SWOONING.
    The Kaurava bulls then, regarding Ghatotkacha deed, uttered loud shouts (of joy). Soon, however, he was seen on all sides, careering in new forms. Once more, he was seen to assume a prodigious form, with a hundred heads and a hundred stomachs, and looking like the Mainaka mountain. 1 Once again, becoming small about the measure of the thumb, he moved about transversely or soared aloft like the swelling surges of the sea. Tearing through the earth and rising on the surface, he dived again into the waters. Once seen here, he was next seen at a different place. Descending then from the welkin, he was seen standing, clad in mail, on a car decked with gold, having wandered through earth and sky and all the points of the compass, aided by his powers of illusion. Approaching then the vicinity of Karna’s car, Ghatotkacha, with his ear-rings waving, fearlessly addressed the Suta’s son, O monarch, and said, ‘Wait a little, O Suta’s son. Whither shalt thou go with life, avoiding me. I shall today, on the field of battle, quell thy desire of fight.’ Having said those words, that Rakshasas, of cruel prowess and eyes red like copper in wrath, soared aloft into the sky and laughed aloud. Like a lion smiting a prince of elephants, he began to strike Karna, pouring upon him a shower of shafts, each of the measure the Aksha, of a car. Indeed, he poured that arrowy shower upon Karna, that bull among car-warriors, like a cloud pouring torrents of rain on a mountain, Karna destroyed that shower of arrows from a distance. Beholding his illusion destroyed by Karna, O bull of Bharata’s race, Ghatotkacha once more created an illusion and made himself invisible. He became a high mountain with many summits and abounding with tall trees. And from that mountain incessantly issued streams of lances and spears and swords and clubs. Seeing that mountain, which resembled a mighty mass of antimony, with its streams of fierce weapons, on the welkin, Karna was not at all agitated. Smiling the while, Karna invoked into existence a celestial weapon. Cut off with that weapon, that huge mountain was destroyed. Then he fierce Ghatotkacha, becoming a blue cloud with a rainbow, in the welkin, began to pour upon the Suta’sson a shower of stones. Vikartana’s son, Karna, who was called also Vrisha, that foremost of all persons acquainted with weapons, aiming a Vayavya weapon, destroyed that dart-cloud. Then covering all the points of the compass with innumerable shafts, he destroyed a weapon that had been aimed at him by Ghatotkacha. The mighty son of Bhimasena then laughing loudly in that battle, once more invoked into existence an all-powerful illusion against the mighty car-warrior Karna. Once more beholding that foremost of warriors, viz., Ghatotkacha, fearlessly approaching him, surrounded by a large number of Rakshasasthat resembled lions and tigers and infuriated elephants in prowess, some riding on elephants, some on cars, and some on horseback, all armed with diverse weapons and clad in diverse kinds of mail and diverse kinds of ornaments; in fact, beholding Ghatotkacha surrounded by those fierce Rakshasas like Vasava by the Maruts, the mighty bowman Karna began to battle with him fiercely. Then Ghatotkacha piercing Karna with five shafts, uttered a terrible roar frightening all the kings. Once more shooting an Anjalika weapon, Ghatotkacha quickly cut off the bow of Karna’s hand along with the arrowy shower the latter had shot. Karna then taking out another bow that was strong and capable of bearing a great strain and that was as large as Indra’s bow, drew it with great force. Then Karna shot some foe-slaying shafts of golden wings at those sky-rangingRakshasas. Afflicted with those shafts, the large foes of broad chested Rakshasas looked agitated like a herd of wild elephants afflicted by a lion. Destroying with his shafts those Rakshasas along with their steeds and diverse elephants, the puissant Karna looked like the divine Agni consuming all creatures at the time of the universal dissolution. Having destroyed that Rakshasahost, the Suta’s son looked resplendent like the god Maheswara in heaven after having consumed the triple city (of the Asuras). Among those thousands of kings on the Pandava side, O sire, there was not a single one, O monarch, that could even look at Karna then, save the mighty Ghatotkacha, that prince of Rakshasas, who was endued with terrible energy and strength, and who, inflamed with rage, then looked like Yama himself. From his eyes, as he was excited with wrath, flames of fire seemed to emit, like blazing drops of oil from a couple of burning brands. Striking his palm against palm and biting his nether lip, theRakshasa was once more seen on a car that had been created by his illusion, and unto which were yoked a number of asses, looking like elephants and having the faces of Pisachas. Excited with wrath, he addressed his driver, saying, ‘Bear me towards the Suta’s son.’
    p. 408
    [paragraph continues] Then that foremost of car-warriors proceeded on that terrible-looking car of his, for once more fighting a single combat with the Suta’s son, O king! The Rakshasa, excited with rage, hurled at the Suta’s son an Asani of Rudra’s workmanship, terrible and furnished with eight wheels. Karna, placing his bow on his car, jumped down on the earth and seizing that Asani hurled it back at Ghatotkacha. The latter, however, had quickly descended from his car (before the weapon could reach it). The Asani, meanwhile, of great effulgence, having reduced the Raksha’s car to ashes, with it steeds, driver, and standard, piercing through the earth, disappeared within its bowels, at which the gods were filled with wonder. Then all creatures applauded Karna, who, having jumped down from his car, had seized that Asani. Having achieved that feat, Karna once more ascended his car.
    OBSERVATION SO WE SEE ITS NOTAS IF KARNA WAS TOTALLY HELPLESS AGAINST GHATOTKACHA HE INFACT WAS INJURING HIM REGULARLY AND DESTROYING HIS WEAPONS AS WELL. INFACT ONE OF HIS POWERFUL WEAPONS WAS DESTROYED BY KARNA WITH HIS BARE HANDS IE SERIALS SHOW THE OPPOSITE.
    The Suta’s sort, that scorcher of foes, then began to shoot his shafts. Indeed, O giver of honours, there is none else amongst all living creatures who can accomplish what Karna accomplished in that frightful battle. Struck by Karna with shafts like a mountain with torrents of rain, Ghatotkacha once more disappeared from the field of battle like the melting forms of vapour in the sky. Contending in this way, the gigantic Rakshasa, that slayer of foes, destroyed the celestial weapons of Karna by means of his activity as also his power of illusion. Seeing his weapons destroyed by the Rakshasa, aided by his powers of illusion, Karna, without being inspired with fear, continued to fight with the cannibal. Then, O monarch, the mighty son of Bhimasena excited with wrath, divided his own self into many parts, frightening all the mighty car-warriors (of the Kuru army). Then there came on the field of battle lions, and tigers, and hyenas, and snakes with fiery tongues, and birds with iron beaks. As regards Ghatotkacha. himself, struck with the keen arrows that were sped from Karna’s bow, that huge Rakshasa, looking like (Himavat) the prince of mountains, disappeared then and there. Then many Rakshasas and Pisachasand Yatudhanas, and large numbers of wolves and leopards, of frightful faces rushed towards Karna for devouring him. These approached the Suta’s son, uttering fierce howls for frightening him. Karna pierced every one of those monsters with many swift-winged and terrible shafts that drank their blood. At last, using a celestial weapon, he destroyed that illusion of the Rakshasa. He then, with some straight and fierce shafts, struck the steeds of Ghatotkacha. These, with broken and maimed limbs, and their backs cut by those shafts, fell down on the earth, in the very sight of Ghatotkacha. The son of Hidimva, seeing his illusion dispelled, once more made himself invisible, saying unto Karna, the son of Vikartana, ‘I will presently compass thy destruction.'”
    AT THIS STAGE BATTLE SCENARIO SHIFTS GHATOTKACHA DEVIATES ELSEWHERE AND BHIMA NAKULA SAHADEVA ATTACK KARNA AS BELOW
    Beholding them slaughtered (by Karna), Bhima, of terrible prowess, rushed speedily towards Karna, shooting his shafts in that battle. Then those warriors also, viz., Nakula and Sahadeva and the mighty car-warrior,Satyaki, having slain the Rakshasas, proceeded to that place where the Suta’s son was. All of them, then, began to fight with Karna,
    Beholding the mighty son of Bhimasena engaged with Alayudha, the mighty-armed Karna rushed against the Panchalas. He pierced Dhrishtadyumna and Sikhandin, each with ten strong and straight shafts sped from his bow drawn to its fullest stretch. With a number of other powerful shafts, the Suta’s son then caused Yudhamanyu and Uttamaujas, and the great car-warrior Satyaki to tremble. The bows of those warriors also, O king, while they were engaged in striking Karna from all sides, were seen to be drawn into circles. On that night, the twang of their bow-strings and the rattle of their car-wheels (mingling together), became loud and deep as the roar of the clouds at the close of summer. The nocturnal battle, O monarch, resembled a gathering mass of clouds. The twang of bow-string and the rattle of car-wheels constituted its roar. The bows (of warriors) constituted its lightning flashes; and showers of shafts formed its downpour of rain. Standing immovable like a hill and possessed of the strength of a prince of mountains, that grinder of foes, viz., Vikartana’s son, Karna, O king, destroyed that wonderful shower of arrows shot at him. Devoted to the good of thy sons, the high-souled Vaikartana, in the battle, began to strike his foes with lances endued with the force of thunder, and with whetted shafts, equipped with beautiful wings of gold. Soon the standard of some were broken and cut down by Karna, and the bodies of others pierced and mangled by him with keen arrows; and soon some were deprived of drivers, and some of their steeds. Exceedingly afflicted by the Suta’sson in that battle, many of them entered the force of Yudhishthira. Beholding them broken and compelled to retreat, Ghatotkacha became mad with rage. Mounted on that excellent car of his that was decked with gold and jewels, he uttered a leonine roar and approaching Vikartana’s son, Karna, pierced him with shafts endued with the force of thunder. Both of them began to cover the welkin with barbed arrows, and cloth-yard shafts, and frog-faced arrows, and Nalikas and Dandas andAsanis and arrows bearing heads like the calf’s tooth or the boar’s ear, and broad-headed shafts, and shafts pointed like horns, and others bearing heads like razors. The welkin, covered with that arrowy shower, looked, in consequence of those gold-winged shafts of blazing splendour coursing horizontally through it, as if hung with garland of beautiful flowers. Each endued with prowess equal to that of the other, they struck each other equally with powerful weapons. None could, in that battle, find any mark of superiority in either of those excellent heroes. Indeed, that battle between the son of Surya and Bhima’s son, characterised by a thick and heavy shower of weapons, looked exceedingly beautiful and presented almost an unrivalled sight like the fierce encounter between Rahu and Surya in the welkin.’
    HERE WE SEE KARNA VS GHATOKACHA BATTLE IS AT A VERY EVENLY POISED SCENARIO.
    “Sanjaya continued, ‘When Ghatotkacha, O king, that foremost of all persons conversant with weapons, found that he could not prevail over Karna, he invoked into existence a fierce and mighty weapon. With that weapon, the Rakshasa first slew the steeds of Karna and then the latter’s driver. Having achieved that feat, Hidimva’s son quickly made himself invisible.’
    “Dhritarashtra said, ‘When the Rakshasa fighting by deceitful means thus disappeared, tell me, O Sanjaya, what the warriors of my army thought.’
    “Sanjaya said, Seeing the Rakshasa disappear, all the Kauravas loudly said, Appearing next, the Rakshasa, fighting deceitfully, will certainly slay Karna.’ Then Karna, endued with wonderful lightness in the use of weapons, covered all sides with showers of shafts. The welkin being covered with the darkness caused by that thick arrowy shower, all creatures became invincible. So great was the lightness of hand displayed by the Suta’s son, that none could mark when he touched his quivers with his fingers, when he fixed his arrows on the bowstring, and when he aimed and sped them off. The entire welkin seemed to be shrouded with his arrows. Then a fierce and terrible illusion was invoked into existence by the Rakshas in the welkin. We beheld in the sky what appeared to us to be a mass of red clouds resembling the fierce flame of a blazing fire. From that cloud issued flashes of lightning, and many blazing brands, O Kuru king! And tremendous roars also issued therefrom, like the noise of thousands of drums beat at once. And from it fell many shafts winged with gold, and darts, lances and heavy clubs, and other similar weapons, and battle-axes, and scimitars washed with oil, and axes of blazing edges,
    p. 416
    and spears, and spiked maces emitting shining rays, and beautiful maces of iron, and long darts of keen points, and heavy maces decked with gold and twined round with string’s, and Sataghnis, all around. And large rocks fell from it, and thousands of thunderbolts with loud report, and many hundreds of wheels and razors of the splendour of fire. Karna shooting showers of shafts, failed to destroy that thick and blazing downpour of darts and lances and clubs.
    HERE A WEAPONS OF GHATOKACHA STARTS CAUSING DESTRUCTION TO THE ARMY AND YES KARNA HERE IS NOT ABLE TO QUELL THAT WEAPON.
    Loud became the uproar then of falling steeds slain by those shafts, and mighty elephants struck with thunder, and great car-warriors deprived of life by other weapons. Afflicted by Ghatotkacha with that terrible shower of arrows all around, that host of Duryodhana was seen to wander in great pain over the field. With cries of Oh and Alas, and exceedingly cheerless, that wandering host seemed on the point of being annihilated. The leaders, however, in consequence of the nobility of their hearts, fled not away with faces turned from the field. Beholding that exceedingly frightful and awful shower of mighty weapons, caused by the Rakshasa’s illusion, failing upon the field, and seeing their vast army incessantly slaughtered, the sons became inspired with great fear. Hundreds of jackals with tongues blazing like fire and terrible yells, began to cry. And, O king, the (Kaurava) warriors beholding the yelling Rakshasas, became exceedingly distressed. Those terrible Rakshasas with fiery tongues and blazing mouths and sharp teeth, and with forms huge as hills, stationed in the welkin, with darts in grasp looked like clouds pouring torrents of rain. Struck and crushed with those fierce shafts and darts and lances and maces and spiked clubs of blazing splendour; and thunder-bolts and Pinakas andAsanis and disci and Sataghnis, the (Kaurava) troops began to fall down. The Rakshasas began to pour upon the warriors of thy son long darts, and treacle and Sataghnis, and Sthunas made of black iron and twined with strings of jute. Then all the combatants became stunned. Brave warriors, with weapons broken or loosened from their grasp, or deprived of heads, or with fractured limbs began to fall down on the field. And in consequence of the failing rocks, steeds and elephants and cars began to be crushed. Those Yatudhanas of terrible forms created by Ghatotkacha with the aid of his powers of illusion pouring that thick shower of mighty weapons spared neither those that were terrified nor those that begged for quarter. During that cruel carnage of Kuru heroes, brought on by Death himself, during that extermination of Kshatriyas the Kaurava warriors suddenly broke and fled with speed, crying aloud, ‘Fly, ye Kauravas! All is lost! The gods Indra at their head are slaying us for the sake of the Pandavas!’ At that time there was none that could rescue the sinking Bharata troops. During that fierce uproar and rout and extermination of the Kauravas, the camps losing their distinctive features, the parties could not be distinguished from each other. Indeed, during that terrible rout in which the soldiers showed no regard for one another, every side of the field, when looked at, seemed to be empty. Only Karna, O king, could be seen there, drowned in that shower of weapons. Then Karna covered the welkin with his shafts, contending with that celestial illusion of the Rakshasa. The Suta’s son, endued with modesty and achieving the most difficult and noble feats, did not lose his senses in that battle.
    HERE ITS SANCITONED THAT KARNA IS QUITE COMPOSED.
    Then, O king, all the Saindhavas and Valhikas affrightedly looked at Karna who kept his senses in that fight. And they all worshipped him, while they looked at the triumph of the Rakshasa. Then a Sataghni equipped with wheels, hurled by Ghatotkacha, slew the four steeds of Karna simultaneously. These. dropped down on the ground, on their knees, deprived of life, teeth, eyes, and tongues. Then jumping down from his steedless car and seeing the Kauravas flying away, and beholding his own celestial weapon baffled by the Rakshasa illusion, Karna, without losing his senses, turned his mind inwards and began to reflect on what he should next do.
    HERE KARNA IS WONDERING WHAT TO DO
    At that time all the Kauravas, beholding Karna and that terrible illusion (of the Rakshasa) cried out saying, ‘O Karna, slay the Rakshasa soon with thy dart. These Kauravas and the Dhartarashtras are on the point of being annihilated. What will Bhima and Arjuna do to us? Slay this wretched Rakshasa at dead of night, who is consuming us all. They that will escape from this dreadful encounter to-day will fight with the Parthas in battle. Therefore, slay this terrible Rakshas now with that dart given thee by Vasava. O Karna, let not these great warriors, the Kauravas, these princes that resemble Indra himself, be all destroyed in this nocturnal battle.’ Then Karna, seeing the Rakshasa alive at dead of night, and the Kuru army struck with fear, and hearing also the loud wails of the latter set his heart upon hurling his dart. Inflamed with rage like a wrathful lion and unable to brook the assaults of the Rakshasa, Karna took up that foremost of victory-giving and invincible darts, desirous of compassing the destruction of Ghatotkacha. Indeed, that dart, O king, which he had kept and adored for years for (achieving) the slaughter of Pandu’s son in battle, that foremost of darts which Sakra himself had given to the Suta’s son in exchange for the latter’s ear-rings, that blazing and terriblemissile twined with strings and which seemed to thirst for blood, that fierce weapon which looked like the very tongue of the Destroyer or the sister of Death himself, that terrible and effulgent dart, Naikartana, was now hurled at the Rakshasa. Beholding that excellent and blazing weapon capable of piercing the body of every foe, in the hands of the Suta’s son, the Rakshasa began to fly away in fear assuming a body gigantic as the foot of the Vindhya mountains. Indeed, seeing that dart in Karna’s hand, all creatures in the sky, O king, uttered loud cries. Fierce winds began to blow, and thunders with loud report began to fall on the earth. Destroying that blazing illusion of Ghatotkacha and piercing right through his breast that resplendent dart soared aloft in the night and entered a starry constellation in the firmament. Having fought, using diverse beautiful weapons, with many heroic Rakshasa and human warriors, Ghatotkacha, then uttering diverse terrible roars, fell, deprived of life with that dart of Sakra.
    Final conclusion karna was mopping the floor with ghatotkacha regularly just has I have mopped sachin and defeated him. Later on ghatotkacha destroyed one chariot of karna and started fighting soldiers and killing them. This scene we see with bhima also. After getting booted away by karna he starts fighting oridinary soldiers its like police officer is fighting with some big don don thrashes him and police officer runs after petty goondas hence police officer undefeated here is the bhima karna passages
    O monarch, that once more took place between Karna and the son of Pandu in battle, became, O
    king, exceedingly fierce and awful and fraught with a loud din.. Then Bhima, boasting of his
    prowess in battle, covered Karna in that encounter, O king, with showers of winged shafts in
    the very sight of thy sons. Then Karna, that warrior acquainted with the highest of weapons,
    filled with wrath, pierced Bhima with nine broad-headed and straight arrows made entirely of
    iron. Then Karna, filled with rage, grasped his strong bow and pierced Bhima with ten arrows
    whetted on stone and equipped with kanka feathers. Deeply pierced by Karna, that great bowman
    and foremost of all persons endued with might then took up a terrible shaft capable of piercing
    through the body of his antagonist. That shaft, cutting through Karna’s armour and piercing
    through his body, passed out and entered the Earth like a snake into ant-hill. In consequence
    of the violence of that stroke, Karna felt great pain and became exceedingly agitated. Indeed,
    he trembled on his car like a mountain during an earthquake. Then Karna, O king, filled with
    rage and the desire to retaliate, struck Bhima with five and twenty shafts, and then with many
    more. With one arrow he then cut off Bhimasena’s standard, and with another broad-headed arrow
    he despatched Bhima’s driver to the presence of Yama. Next quickly cutting off the bow of
    Pandu’s son with another winged arrow, Karna deprived Bhima of terrible feats of his car.
    Deprived of his car, O chief of Bharata’s race, the mighty-armed Bhima, who resembled the Wind-
    god (in prowess) took up a mace and jumped down from his excellent vehicle. Indeed, jumping
    down from his car with great fury, Bhima began to slay thy troops, ( Here we see bhima
    realizing he cant prevail over karna and infact was bested by karna here attacking others now perfect case of khisyaani billi khamba noche battle karna ka saath tha to karna se ladho. Theek hai arjun ne maarne ki pratigya lee thee to use defeat karke send him packing like karna did to yudhi. Nirdosh sainik ko maarne ka kya matlab hai)

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    1. @Niraj,

      Now Sachin will come firing on all cylinders that the part where Ghatotkach was disillusioned despite many of his antics and could not prevail over Karna is SUPERNATURAL event hence INVALID…ha….ha…..ha….ha….!

      OR should we give that excuse that Ghatotkach using all SUPERNATURAL antics is INVALID and he did not fight with Karna at all…..??? ha…ha….ha…ha..!

      Anyhow the passage proves once again that Karna could fight illusions even without his divine Kavach-Kundal and celestial Vijay bow (any divine help) unlike Arjun who could not even dare to change his chariot, charioteer and bow in Kuruksehtra…….Karna could also fight in night with no mention of him practising in night but Arjun COULD NOT FIGHT IN NIGHT despite practising archery in night!!

      Niraj, one more thing is proved by the text that Karna always had the prowess and capability to puncture illusionary tactics of his opponents. This means had Chitrasen faced him in Gandharva attack instead of using illusion from his hibernation the end would have been different. Arjun could also dispel his illusions because they were fighting face to face and that too by using celestial weapons. Karna did not use any celestial weapons with Gandharvas like Arjun. This further means that he was fighting an ordinary war.

      So it will be no exaggeration to conclude that Karna was far superior a warrior than the BEST Arjun as far as basic traits in a warrior are concerned…….!

      Can anyone expect such MATURE deductions from MB passages by Science professor, Sachin the Great….???? Ha…ha..ha..ha…..ha….ha….!!

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  9. @ Sanjay,

    Your statement-“If Drona did not teach Kuru princes anything else except wars who gave them other educations? So by your LOGIC & POOR UNDERSTANDING they were ILLITERATE WARRIORS….??”

    My ans- Sorry buddy, you are not qualified enough or matured enough to argue with me on this topic…. But for the sake of Teaching you some basics of MB, here are some of the facts of MB:

    1. Moral science Teachers & War Teachers were different during MB period…. Very few teachers used to give combined Teaching…..

    2. Bhishma had some 3-4 different teachers, out of which Vasishtha was his Moral science Teachers, while Parsuram was his War teacher….

    3. King Pandu/Dhritrashtra/Vidura had One Moral science Teachers(i dont remember his name), but they could not find any War Teacher, hence Bhishma himself taught them War science…..

    4. Similarly, Kurus/Pandavas’s Moral science Teacher was KRIPACHARYA, while they luckily got Drona as their War Teacher….. And Drona only taught them about WAR SCIENCE…..

    5. Moral science Teachers were many & readily available during MB period BUT it was very difficult to get WAR TEACHERS, because they also had their own PARTIALITIES & PERSONAL CHOICES etc regarding chosing their students…..
    ————————-

    Now, if you still keep arguing with me on this point, then keep crying because NOBODY CARES…..

    Your statement-“If Karna and Kurus were clueless in night fight what special achievement did Arjun have in the night? Even he could not kill clueless Karna in the night”

    My ans- Invalid point…… Arjun did not face Karna at night…..

    Your statement-“I gave you long list of reasons. If you are MATURE you can have your own pick…and let all of us know which one is your choice.”

    My ans- Ha..ha…ha…. You are yourself Clueless about your Childish REASONS of “Night Practice”, so even you could not pick the Valid reason…. So you youself punctured your own funny claims….

    Your statement-“If you are asking me which reason is to be picked for Arjun practicing in night despite giving long list then it shows your FRUSTRATION & MATURITY LEVEL….”

    My ans- I already told you, Arjun was PRACTICING to LEARN NIGHT FIGHTING…..

    Your statement-“Mb clearly mentions that Drona didnt even want Arjun to get the idea of night fight & Practice it…My answer – ha…ha….ha..ha…show me text from KMG mentioning so….”

    My ans- “No food to Arjun in the dark” event clearly proves that…..

    Your statement-“Drona was clear from the first day when he told Bhishma that he needed Kuru princes for a PURPOSE so the question of father-son capabilities does not arise at all.”

    My ans- Ha..ha…ha…. That is te point Miyaan…. Drona was clear from the first day that he wasnt capable enough to take on Drupad Alone… hence he came to Hastinapur for help…..

    Your statement-“Moreover Drona himself was capable enough to kill Drupad which he did in Kurukshetra thus blowing away your mindless claim.”

    My ans- Miyaan, Drona had back up of Hastinpaur army(& support Maharathis) in MB war, that is why he could kill Drupad….. It does not mean that Drona could have killed Drupad(with his army) alone….

    Your statement-“Show me relevant text from KMG to prove that Drona did EVRYTHING for Ashwathama”

    My ans- Well, the actual events of “Secret classes to Ashwatthama”, “Narayanastra only possessed by Ashwatthama” etc clearly proves this,…… If you cant understand that its your KG problem…..

    Your statement-“Drona would make Arjun BEST is mentioned in MB. Text already quoted.”

    My ans- Statement in MB have no value in front of ACTUAL EVENTS….. And the ACTUAL EVENTS of “Secret classes to Ashwatthama”, “No food to Arjun in dark” etc clearly punctures your claim….

    Your statement-“Please show from KMG that he knew Arjun would not require best of weapons or don’t talk in AIR.”
    My ans- Please show from KMG that Drona DID NOT knew Arjun would not require best of weapons or don’t talk in AIR…..
    Your answer – so we agree that you cannot prove your point hence I WIN ON THIS POINT AS WELL.

    My ans- So we agree that since you cannot prove VIRAAT WAR AS SUPERNATURAL hence I WIN that debate ….. Ha..ha…ha…. Got the point Sanjay Miyaan…..

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  10. @Sachin,

    If Drona did not teach Kuru princes anything else except wars who gave them other educations? So by your LOGIC & POOR UNDERSTANDING they were ILLITERATE WARRIORS….?? Are these the basics of MB which you are boasting about? AND you want to debate with ME…?? …hadh ho gayee ab to!

    I wonder you do not even understand the SIMPLE fact that one cannot fight wars if you do not perfect your skills. For doing that you need lot of practice which Arjun was doing in night. Once you reach certain stage of skills you become ready to undergo mock drills of various war situations. Then you actually start learning Fighting. In such mock drills you need a dummy opponent, an observer/ evaluator to judge your performance or an instructor to brief/guide you……..you cannot be one single person LEARNING WARS by your self. Eklavya was also skillful due to intense practice he put in. Does this mean that his cook used to give him food in the dark? Kya kuchh bhi…???

    If Karna and Kurus were clueless in night fight what special achievement did Arjun have in the night? Even he could not kill clueless Karna in the night making mockery of your claim that he learnt night fight despite Drona’s resistance…..
    ——————
    Your statement – So Sanjay miyaan, why was Arjun practicing archery at night ?? Which of the Kindergarten reason (Given by You) matches here for Arjun ??

    My answer – I gave you long list of reasons. If you are MATURE you can have your own pick…and let all of us know which one is your choice. DO NOT CHICKEN OUT!

    —————–
    Your statement – Further, your answers have proved that you are NOT eligible or matured enough to argue with me on this topic because of your KINDERGARTEN UNDERSTANING…. So be happy with your KG UNDERSTANDING …..Because NOBODY CARES WHAT KID SAYS……

    My answer – If you are asking me which reason is to be picked for Arjun practicing in night despite giving long list then it shows your FRUSTRATION & MATURITY LEVEL….
    ——————-

    Your statement – Typical Kindergarten question….. Arjun STARTED to learn night fight by practicing archery at night…. And it is not mentioned that Arjun PERFECTED the night fight just by Practicing AIMING at target board at night…. And i did not claim so….. So why is the question of requirement of drill/instructor/observer/rival etc here ?? Drona may have taught the further details of NIGHT FIGHT to Arjun later….. But the point here is that Arjun had already got the IDEA of night Fight, hence it was now obligated on Drona to teach him Night fight, otherwise it would have meant an Open cheating by Drona…..

    My answer – Yeah..yeah…yeah…..I have already thanked you for proving my point that Arjun was PRACTICING in night which did not mean learning night fight. Logically speaking also KID Arjun could only PRACTICE and not learn night fight on his own….Period. Rest of your sermon does not make sense!
    —————-

    Your statement – Ha..ha…ha…. Utter LIE… Mb clearly mentions that Drona didnt even want Arjun to get the idea of night fight & Practice it…

    My answer – ha…ha….ha..ha…show me text from KMG mentioning so….
    ———————-

    Your statement – As said previously…you wont UNDERSTAND the practicalities of MB untill you grow up…. If Drona/Ashwatthama had the capabilties, then drona would have himself attacked Drupad(with the help of Ashwatthama) to take his revenge…. for this, Drona would have only taught Ashwatthama & he would not have accepted the offer of Hastinpaur to teach the kuru princes…..

    My answer – AND what have you understood in MB? TEST TUBE BABIES…..? Ganesha Publications Pvt Ltd…???? ha….ha…ha….ha…ha….Drona was clear from the first day when he told Bhishma that he needed Kuru princes for a PURPOSE so the question of father-son capabilities does not arise at all. Moreover Drona himself was capable enough to kill Drupad which he did in Kurukshetra thus blowing away your mindless claim.

    —————-

    Following of your facts from MB prove your FAILURE:

    1. Drona tried everything to make Ashwatthama best(gave every possible education which he didnt even give to Arjun)….. But Ashwatthama could not become the best….

    My answer – Show me relevant text from KMG to prove that Drona did EVRYTHING for Ashwathama otherwise do not talk in air! We are not here to listen to your Sachin Ideas..

    2. Drona did not send Ashwatthama to fight with Drupad,…. obvious reason is that he did not want Ashwatthama to die at the hands of Drupad…..

    My answer – NO…..it is YOUR LAME UNDERSTANDING, the ACTUAL reason is Gurudakshina was for Kuru Princes and not for Ashwathama.

    3. Drona taught the Kuru princes only to use them to take revenge from Drupad…. There was no intention of Drona to make Arjun as best, which is clearly evident by examples of Drona’s partiality…..

    My answer –NO….. Again it is YOUR LAME UNDERSTANDING. Drona would make Arjun BEST is mentioned in MB. Text already quoted. Drona shared his purpose to Bhishma and Kuru princes in the beginning itself and promised to make Arjun BEST later on. This proves his genuine and sincere intent of making Arjun BEST.
    ——————-

    My statement-“Please show from KMG that he knew Arjun would not require best of weapons or don’t talk in AIR.”

    Your ans- Please show from KMG that Drona DID NOT knew Arjun would not require best of weapons or don’t talk in AIR…..

    My answer – so we agree that you cannot prove your point hence I WIN ON THIS POINT AS WELL.
    ———————–
    Your statement – Simple answer…. Drona did not want to take any chances….. And it was fair on part of Drona to give CHANCES to all kurus to pay their Guru-dakshina…..

    My answer – Again your answer is INCORRECT. The correct answer is gurudakshina was for Kuru princes only. If Drona did not want to take chances then he would have made Pandavas also join Kauravas.

    ———————
    Your statement – Well your STUPID point (which u copied from Mr I) has already been punctured….. So already won this debate…..

    My answer – Punctured…???????? Arey your entire mission on Drona cheating Arjun has been blown out of its existence from all aspects and you are weeping unnecessarily and crying hysterically that you won the ONE-SIDED debate….?? Ha…ha….ha..ha…ha…Text, me and Mr I have exposed your crippled understanding on the subject….so crying won’t get you victory, Grown up Uncle!!

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  11. @ Sanjay,

    Your statement-“It was not a WAR SCHOOL but SCHOOL for royal students where royal members were taught to be capable, honest, sensitive, just and righteous kings/princes/warriors hence the curriculum would include learning scriptures, rituals, politics, arts, history, rule of law etc apart from learning warfare. It depends on teacher how he teaches and what methods does he adopt to stress upon his teaching points. For e.g. Drona adopted different techniques for Arjun like ‘no food in night’ to stress upon the need to practice…practice..and more practice, bird eye test to showcase the importance of ‘unwavering focus’ on the job, vessel activity to make students to ‘think out of the box’, crocodile ploy to test who all could deal with adverse situation with promptness etc”

    My ans- Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. This is what happens when we argue with a KG kid….. We say that Moon is a Planet, but the kid says that Moon is his “Chandaa-Mama” because his parents said so…… Ha..ha…ha….

    Hey guys look… Sanjay doesnt even know the basics of MB, that Drona was the WAR TEACHER of Hastinapur & not the Moral science teacher….. so why would i bother to take Sanjay seriously now…. Because NOBODY CARES WHAT A KID THINKS…..!!

    Your statement-“So miyaan night fight or for that matter any fight does not come JUST BY SHOOTING SOME ARROWS AT TAREGT BOARD IN THE DARK.”

    My ans- Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. this is getting better & better…. So miyaan, by YOUR LOGIC, Drona should have sent Kurus to direct WARS to practice War fighting….. But Drona NEVER sent them to wars during their entire learning period (gurudakhina war was after schooling period), so by YOUR LOGIC, Drona DID NOT teach them the Art of Wars…. Right ????? I wonder then what was Drona doing all these Years, making kuru practice on Target boards/Artificial bird/Crocodile etc ?? Training Kurus for Olympic archery competition ????? Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha….

    Your statement-“Did we learn anywhere that all those who were fighting in the night in Kurukshetra war also practiced in the DARK…? No…instead of being PROUD ULLUs they were confident of their capabilities which made them face any adverse situation.”

    My ans- Kindergarten Point again…. kurus & Karna were clueless against Ghatotkach’s night attack which made Karna RUN AWAY from Ghatotkach on the 1st occasion & on the 2d occasion Karna had to use his best weapon to kill Ghatotkach…. This clearly shows the inabilities of Karna(& Kurus) in night fighting skills…..

    Your statement-“I will say that one can always practice in the DARK/NIGHT because of any of the following reasons:-…. Blah blah blah….”

    My ans- Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. So Sanjay miyaan, why was Arjun practicing archery at night ?? Which of the Kindergarten reason (Given by You) matches here for Arjun ??

    Further, your answers have proved that you are NOT eligible or matured enough to argue with me on this topic because of your KINDERGARTEN UNDERSTANING…. So be happy with your KG UNDERSTANDING …..Because NOBODY CARES WHAT KID SAYS……

    Your statement-“How could Arjun practice and learn NIGHT FIGHT in the night without any drill/instructor/observer/rival (dummy or otherwise)?”

    My ans- Typical Kindergarten question….. Arjun STARTED to learn night fight by practicing archery at night…. And it is not mentioned that Arjun PERFECTED the night fight just by Practicing AIMING at target board at night…. And i did not claim so….. So why is the question of requirement of drill/instructor/observer/rival etc here ?? Drona may have taught the further details of NIGHT FIGHT to Arjun later….. But the point here is that Arjun had already got the IDEA of night Fight, hence it was now obligated on Drona to teach him Night fight, otherwise it would have meant an Open cheating by Drona…..

    Your statement-“Though text ridicules your SCIENEC THEORY still your own reply proves my point that Drona made him realize the value of PRACTICE…”

    My ans- Ha..ha…ha…. Utter LIE… Mb clearly mentions that Drona didnt even want Arjun to get the idea of night fight & Practice it…. Hence he ordered to servant to cheat Arjun….

    Your statement-“Personal opinion hence INVALID. You again FAILED to understand that Gurudakshina was for KURU PRINCES not for his son. You are still suffering from hangover of limited understanding of Gurudakshina war…..”

    My ans- As said previously…you wont UNDERSTAND the practicalities of MB untill you grow up…. If Drona/Ashwatthama had the capabilties, then drona would have himself attacked Drupad(with the help of Ashwatthama) to take his revenge…. for this, Drona would have only taught Ashwatthama & he would not have accepted the offer of Hastinpaur to teach the kuru princes…..

    But the facts from MB are(these are NOT my personal opinions):

    1. Drona tried everything to make Ashwatthama best(gave every possible education which he didnt even give to Arjun)….. But Ashwatthama could not become the best….

    2. Drona did not send Ashwatthama to fight with Drupad,…. obvious reason is that he did not want Ashwatthama to die at the hands of Drupad…..

    3. Drona taught the Kuru princes only to use them to take revenge from Drupad…. There was no intention of Drona to make Arjun as best, which is clearly evident by examples of Drona’s partiality…..

    Your statement-“Please show from KMG that he knew Arjun would not require best of weapons or don’t talk in AIR.”

    My ans- Please show from KMG that Drona DID NOT knew Arjun would not require best of weapons or don’t talk in AIR…..

    Your statement-“If he gave ‘just enough knowledge’ to Arjun then why did ask ALL KURU PRINCES to get Drupad?”

    My ans- Simple answer…. Drona did not want to take any chances….. And it was fair on part of Drona to give CHANCES to all kurus to pay their Guru-dakshina…..

    Your statement-“What copying are you hallucinating? I gave text before my comments. If myself and Mr I are saying same thing with text supporting our point then it means your theory has been certified STUPID thrice…!!”

    My ans- Well your STUPID point (which u copied from Mr I) has already been punctured….. So already won this debate…..

    Like

  12. @Sachin,

    Q1. How does a student learn the Art of war/fighting in a War school(like Drona’s school) ?

    Ans. Get your understanding corrected, first! It was not a WAR SCHOOL but SCHOOL for royal students where royal members were taught to be capable, honest, sensitive, just and righteous kings/princes/warriors hence the curriculum would include learning scriptures, rituals, politics, arts, history, rule of law etc apart from learning warfare. It depends on teacher how he teaches and what methods does he adopt to stress upon his teaching points. For e.g. Drona adopted different techniques for Arjun like ‘no food in night’ to stress upon the need to practice…practice..and more practice, bird eye test to showcase the importance of ‘unwavering focus’ on the job, vessel activity to make students to ‘think out of the box’, crocodile ploy to test who all could deal with adverse situation with promptness etc..So miyaan night fight or for that matter any fight does not come JUST BY SHOOTING SOME ARROWS AT TAREGT BOARD IN THE DARK. Practice cannot make an OWL out of human who will start seeing in the DARK but it will be his other non-archery aspects which will make him stand a night fight. Did we learn anywhere that all those who were fighting in the night in Kurukshetra war also practiced in the DARK…? No…instead of being PROUD ULLUs they were confident of their capabilities which made them face any adverse situation. So your UNDERSTANDING GETS A COMPLETE TYRE BURST….!!

    Q2. Why does the Students practice Archery on a Target board (at the time of day)??

    Ans. Ha…ha…ha….ha…ha…..ha….ha….who told you they do it on a Target board alone? They can set anything as target and practice….since you have grown up directly without being through CHILDHOOD you will never understand SIMPLE facts of life…..ha….ha..!! Arey baba, this is what is called honing skills? But you being you, you will call it A FIGHT..!

    Q3. Why does a Student practice Archery on a Target board IN THE DARK (at night)??

    Ans. As shared above I will not limit my answer till target board because I do not have such limited understanding. There is also a difference between DARK and NIGHT in the context of our discussion. You can have dark in the day also and light in the night as well…..Oh, Sorry! I did not realize it was also a SIMPLE yet DIFFICULT thing for you…Anyhow for the sake of answering your funny question I will say that one can always practice in the DARK/NIGHT because of any of the following reasons:-
    • If one is interested in bettering his available skills he could always extend his practicing hours in the night
    • Or, if one wants to PRACTICE what one learnt in the DAY to perfection
    • Or, if one missed the scheduled practice hours with other students practicing at extended hours in night can help him recover the lost time
    • Or, if one finds calmness and solitude of the night helpful in developing one’s attention.
    • Or if one wants to avoid distraction of crowd around in the DAY which may affect his performance
    • Or, if the practicing resources or venue was crowded in the DAY
    • Or, if one is not feeling sleepy and is sitting idle
    • Or, if one wants to flatter and impress upon the audience with his extra efforts
    • Or, if one is angry with Sachin for being extra-DUMB then he can always hit the target thinking him to be Sachin, the entertainer!!

    Happy..??? Now answer my question – How could Arjun practice and learn NIGHT FIGHT in the night without any drill / instructor / observer / rival (dummy or otherwise)? Let us see HEIGHT OF MATURITY!

    Your statement – Now, your answers will decide whether you are eligible or matured enough to argue with me on this topic….. Till then be happy with your KG UNDERSTANDING …..

    My answer – Your questions themselves show how GROWN UP YOU ARE…!!

    Your statement – Ha..ha…ha…. A KINDERGARTEN KID is explaining the Science theory to a Science professor….!! You dont need to practice to touch your hand to your mouth(or any other body part) in the dark, because it is the inbuilt ability of a person(called as proprioception)…. But you need to practice to touch other objects (like Chapati, Sabji, Water etc) in the dark….

    My answer – Though text ridicules your SCIENEC THEORY still your own reply proves my point that Drona made him realize the value of PRACTICE…thanks for proving me right hence I WIN THIS DEBATE!
    ——–
    My statement-“so you mean to say that giving weapons to kid was okay but disallowing him to learn night fight was the key to cheat….?? No wonder you call yourself MATURE…..ha….ha….ha…..ha…ha…however I differ from your opinion about self!”

    Your ans- As said previously…you wont UNDERSTAND this untill you grow up….

    My reply – No answer hence I WIN THIS DEBATE!
    ——–
    Your statement – Drona tried everything to make Ashwatthama as the BEST….. But Drona did not want to send Ashwatthama to fight with Drupad or to die at the hands of Drupad… that is why Drona DID NOT send Ashwatthama for Gurudakshina war…..

    My answer – Personal opinion hence INVALID. You again FAILED to understand that Gurudakshina was for KURU PRINCES not for his son. You are still suffering from hangover of limited understanding of Gurudakshina war…..

    Your statement – Further, Drona knew Arjun would defeat Drupad even without the best of weapons(Narayastra, night fighting etc), hence Drona gave just enough knowledge to Arjun(& other Kuru princes) so as to defeat Drupad….. And Drona’s CHEATING has been well documented in MB….. So your funny EXCUSES (which you are copying from Mr I) have already been punctured by me in my discussion with Mr I , who accepted the Drona’s partiality angle…..

    My answer – Please show from KMG that he knew Arjun would not require best of weapons or don’t talk in AIR. If he gave ‘just enough knowledge’ to Arjun then why did ask ALL KURU PRINCES to get Drupad? You seriously LACK COMMON SENSE! Now you have started running behind Mr I if Karna’s worthless monologue could not save you embarrasments..ha….ha…? What copying are you hallucinating? I gave text before my comments. If myself and Mr I are saying same thing with text supporting our point then it means your theory has been certified STUPID thrice…!!

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  13. @ Sanjay,

    Your statement-“So by your logic honing skill is fighting whether in day or night?”

    My ans- Ha..ha…ha…. Well this is getting better & better…. I am now pretty interested in asking you about your UNDERSTANDING about LEARNING OF WAR TECHNIQUES in war schools(like Drona’s schools)….. So Dear Sanjay, please answer my below questions:

    Q1. How does a student learn the Art of war/fighting in a War school(like Drona’s school) ?

    Q2. Why does the Students practice Archery on a Target board (at the time of day)??

    Q3. Why does a Student practice Archery on a Target board IN THE DARK (at night)??
    ——————————–

    Now, your answers will decide whether you are eligible or matured enough to argue with me on this topic….. Till then be happy with your KG UNDERSTANDING …..

    Your statement-“the only thing which will move in the dark is your HAND…neither plate of food nor your mouth. This made him realize the importance of FORCE of HABIT in archery wherein also only hands will move while hitting the target and the ‘more you practice the better it will get’……kuchh samjhe buddhey buddhhuuu!!”

    My ans- Ha..ha…ha…. A KINDERGARTEN KID is explaining the Science theory to a Science professor….!! You dont need to practice to touch your hand to your mouth(or any other body part) in the dark, because it is the inbuilt ability of a person(called as proprioception)…. But you need to practice to touch other objects (like Chapati, Sabji, Water etc) in the dark….

    Your statement-“so you mean to say that giving weapons to kid was okay but disallowing him to learn night fight was the key to cheat….?? No wonder you call yourself MATURE…..ha….ha….ha…..ha…ha…however I differ from your opinion about self!”

    My ans- As said previously…you wont UNDERSTAND this untill you grow up….

    Your statement-“All the more reason for Drona to get BEST warrior among his pupils. Why would Drona ask Kurus this? Why not Ashwathama, if he had to cheat Kurus? Why not make his son the BEST?”

    My ans- Drona tried everything to make Ashwatthama as the BEST….. But Drona did not want to send Ashwatthama to fight with Drupad or to die at the hands of Drupad… that is why Drona DID NOT send Ashwatthama for Gurudakshina war…..

    Further, Drona knew Arjun would defeat Drupad even without the best of weapons(Narayastra, night fighting etc), hence Drona gave just enough knowledge to Arjun(& other Kuru princes) so as to defeat Drupad….. And Drona’s CHEATING has been well documented in MB….. So your funny EXCUSES (which you are copying from Mr I) have already been punctured by me in my discussion with Mr I , who accepted the Drona’s partiality angle…..

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  14. @MATURE Sachin and All Readers,

    This is what Drona wanted from Hastinapur…..

    “Thus insulted by Drupada, O Bhishma, I have been filled with wrath, I have come to the Kurus, DESIROUS OF OBTAINING INTELLIGENT AND DOCILE PUPILS. I come to Hastinapura to gratify thy wishes. O, tell me what I am to do.”

    This is what Bhishma offered……

    “Vaisampayana continued, ‘Thus addressed by the son of Bharadwaja, Bhishma said unto him, ‘String thy bow, O Brahmana, and make the Kuru princes accomplished in arms. Worshipped by the Kurus, enjoy with a glad heart to thy fill every comfort in their abode. Thou art the absolute lord, O Brahmana, of what ever wealth the Kurus have and of their sovereignty and kingdom! The Kurus are thine (from this day). THINK THAT AS ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED WHICH MAY BE IN THY HEART. Thou art, O Brahmana, obtained by us as the fruit of our great good luck. Indeed, the favour thou hast conferred upon me by thy arrival is great.”
    ————

    This is what Drona asked from his pupils on the very first day…..

    “And having accepted them all as his pupils, one day Drona called them apart and making them touch his feet, said to them with a swelling heart, ‘I HAVE IN MY HEART A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. PROMISE ME TRULY, YE SINLESS ONES, THAT WHEN YE HAVE BECOME SKILLED IN ARMS, YE WILL ACCOMPLISH IT.”

    All the more reason for Drona to get BEST warrior among his pupils. Why would Drona ask Kurus this? Why not Ashwathama, if he had to cheat Kurus? Why not make his son the BEST?
    ———
    This is what Arjun replied……

    “Vaisampayana continued, ‘Hearing these words, the Kuru princes remained silent. But Arjuna, O king, VOWED TO ACCOMPLISH IT WHATEVER IT WAS. DRONA THEN CHEERFULLY CLASPED ARJUNA TO HIS BOSOM AND TOOK THE SCENT OF HIS HEAD REPEATEDLY, SHEDDING TEARS OF JOY ALL THE WHILE.”

    Even before ‘food in night’ episode Drona knew about Arjun’s sincerity and dedication. Why would he cheat the person who would accomplish his PURPOSE…..?? Only MATURE Sachin can think so……!
    —————–
    Further, see Drona’s observations…..

    “Arjuna, however, from devotion to the science of arms, ALWAYS STAYED BY THE SIDE OF HIS PRECEPTOR, AND IN SKILL, STRENGTH OF ARMS, AND PERSEVERANCE, EXCELLED ALL (HIS CLASS-FELLOWS). Indeed, ALTHOUGH THE INSTRUCTION THE PRECEPTOR GAVE, WAS THE SAME IN THE CASE OF ALL, YET IN LIGHTNESS AND SKILL ARJUNA BECAME THE FOREMOST OF ALL HIS FELLOW-PUPILS. And DRONA WAS CONVINCED THAT NONE OF HIS PUPILS WOULD (AT ANY TIME) BE ABLE TO BE EQUAL TO THAT SON OF INDRA.”

    Arjun was keen to learn and polish his skill which convinced Drona that he was a special talent. MATURITY says he should be made BEST….Why and how would Ashwathama enter into his scheme of things to achieve his PURPOSE? Nowhere is it said that Arjun was foremost in FIGHT, day or night is irrelevant.
    —————-

    Then came water-filling episode….it is already mentioned in the earlier sections of the Parva that Ashwathama used to teach Kuru princes when they were under Kripa which means Ashwathama was their senior. Below given passage is an extension of the same fact where Drona wanted separate slot for teaching his son some superior methods and to use time judiciously he used narrow-mouthed technique to buy out time (from the time of teaching 105 pupils) for teaching his son. Arjun being a keen learner and already in possession of Varun weapon (given by Drona only) was able to join Ashwathama in higher studies…..if other princes did not have that weapon then Drona might not have given it to them which only verifies his inclination towards Arjun. If they had it still they never used it then it means they did not have same intent as Arjun which again verifies that he WAS TO BE THE BEST…….Passage mentions Arjun had already become his FAVOURITE even before ‘food in night’ happened…..

    “Thus Drona continued giving lessons to the princes in the science of weapons. And while he gave unto every one of his pupils a narrow-mouthed vessel (for fetching water) in order that much time may be spent in filling them, he gave unto his own son Aswatthaman a broad-mouthed vessel, so that, filling it quickly, he might return soon enough. And in the intervals so gained, Drona used to instruct his own son in several superior methods (of using weapons). Jishnu (Arjuna) came to know of this, and thereupon filling his narrow-mouthed vessel with water by means of the Varuna weapon he used to come unto his preceptor at the same time with his preceptor’s son. And accordingly the intelligent son of Pritha, that foremost of all men possessing a knowledge of weapons, had no inferiority to his preceptor’s son in respect of excellence. ARJUNA’S DEVOTION TO THE SERVICE OF HIS PRECEPTOR AS ALSO TO ARMS WAS VERY GREAT AND HE SOON BECAME THE FAVOURITE OF HIS PRECEPTOR.
    ———-

    AND after all these events came the ‘food in night’ episode which has been thoroughly explained and proved as a motivational technique to make Arjun extend his learning and practicing hours.

    So in the light of above facts from MB we can easily conclude that DRONA DID NO PARTIALITY AGAINST ARJUN and NEVER TRIED TO DISSUADE HIM FROM LEARNING ANYTHING HE WANTED TO…..!!

    This is called MATURITY, Sachin! It is required while reading and understanding MB and not while hallucinating or speculating things…..ha….ha….ha…..ha…..ha….ha……ha……ha……ha…..ha….ha….ha….ha…..!!!

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  15. Sachin – My ans- Ha..ha…ha…. Here comes the Kindergarten Understanding again….. I already told u that you wont UNDERSTAND this untill you grow up….
    So going by your logic, if a warrior is practicing archery in the day then it DOES NOT mean that he is learning Day fight….?? Right ?? Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. So i wonder what were the kuru princes doing practicing Archery in daylight for ?? For Olympic archery competition ?? Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha….

    Sanjay – So by your logic honing skill is fighting whether in day or night? Good I appreciate your effort in using your brain…!! Give it another try….ha….ha…ha….ha…ha….ha….!

    Sachin – typical Kindergarten arguement… read my prior post again… i had said-“while eating in Dark, one has to reach his hand upto the food(Chapati, sabji etc) with a GUESS….. & NOT THE MOUTH….. I think an Allien guy like u can locate things in the dark without a fuss … right ??

    Sanjay – Your post…MY FOOT! Read the text “But Arjuna, endued with energy, continued eating in the dark, HIS HAND, FROM HABIT, GOING TO HIS MOUTH. His ATTENTION BEING THUS CALLED TO THE FORCE OF HABIT, the strong-armed son of Pandu set his heart upon practising with his bow in the night”. Nowhere has it suggested your MATURE thought….the only thing which will move in the dark is your HAND…neither plate of food nor your mouth. This made him realize the importance of FORCE of HABIT in archery wherein also only hands will move while hitting the target and the ‘more you practice the better it will get’……kuchh samjhe buddhey buddhhuuu!!

    Sachin – As expected… you wont UNDERSTAND this untill you grow up…. Drona/Bhishma/dhritrashtras were MATURED GUYS….. If Drona had not given the knowledge of basic weapons(like Varunastra, Vayavastra, Agneyastra etc), then even Bhishma/dhritrashtras would have realised the CHEATING of drona…… But Drona was not that stupid…..

    Sanjay – so you mean to say that giving weapons to kid was okay but disallowing him to learn night fight was the key to cheat….?? No wonder you call yourself MATURE…..ha….ha….ha…..ha…ha…however I differ from your opinion about self!

    Sachin – After insult from Drupad, Drona directly came to Hastinapur to live in Kripa’s house…. So the only practical explaination is that Kripa recommended Drona’s name to Bhishma….. If you want to believe it then its your wish.. otherwise be happy with you fairly tale of “Blade-Grass”….

    Sanjay – There is nothing supernatural in Drona staying at Kripa’s place and then meeting Kuru princes so for God sake DO NOT INSERT YOUR MINDLESS SEPCULATION IN THIS AT LEAST & KINDLY SPARE THIS PART OF MB OF YOUR HALLUCINATION……MB clearly says Bhishma recognized Drona by his act as mentioned by Kuru princes and it was him who THOUGHT of appointing him. Whether I believe in fairy tale or not is non-contextual BUT I can never even expect you to believe MB…..!

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  16. @ Sanjay,

    Your statement-“Arjun was practising archery in the night which has nothing to do with your half-baked grown up understanding of equating it with learning night fight…..”

    My ans- Ha..ha…ha…. Here comes the Kindergarten Understanding again….. I already told u that you wont UNDERSTAND this untill you grow up….

    So going by your logic, if a warrior is practicing archery in the day then it DOES NOT mean that he is learning Day fight….?? Right ?? Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. So i wonder what were the kuru princes doing practicing Archery in daylight for ?? For Olympic archery competition ?? Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha…. Ha..ha…ha….

    Your statement-“Food in your hand will go to your mouth only whether you eat in dark or day.”

    My ans- typical Kindergarten arguement… read my prior post again… i had said-“while eating in Dark, one has to reach his hand upto the food(Chapati, sabji etc) with a GUESS….. & NOT THE MOUTH….. I think an Allien guy like u can locate things in the dark without a fuss … right ??

    Your statement-“Varun weapon was also given by Drona only. I do not know about you but it sounds ridiculous to me that cheating Drona was more concerned with Arjun eating in dark rather than hiding weapons from him.”

    My ans- As expected… you wont UNDERSTAND this untill you grow up…. Drona/Bhishma/dhritrashtras were MATURED GUYS….. If Drona had not given the knowledge of basic weapons(like Varunastra, Vayavastra, Agneyastra etc), then even Bhishma/dhritrashtras would have realised the CHEATING of drona…… But Drona was not that stupid…..

    Your statement-“Kripa’s recommendation was backed by Kuru princes’ narration of grass blade event. It is you who is talking of your theory in isolation w/o any evidence…”

    My ans- After insult from Drupad, Drona directly came to Hastinapur to live in Kripa’s house…. So the only practical explaination is that Kripa recommended Drona’s name to Bhishma….. If you want to believe it then its your wish.. otherwise be happy with you fairly tale of “Blade-Grass”….

    Like

    1. Nope…..it is utter ignorance to claim so….

      It was Bhishma who, when heard about grass blade event, instantly recognised Drona and appointed him royal perceptor

      Like

  17. @ Sanjay,

    Your statement-“I got your point which ASSUMED CHILDISH THEORY that eating in dark was a yardstick to learn night fight. Dark would eventually happen in Arjun’s life sooner or later so just avoiding food makes no sense. He could have learnt it anyway. This is why you need to explain my first question to establish your theory.”

    My ans- Well you wont understand this until your UNDERSTANDING grows….. Drona does not agree with you…..

    Your statement-“However the actual fact of the text you are still missing is that Arjun decided to PRACTICE IN NIGHT and not in FIGHTING IN DARK meaning he extended his hours of learning / training which necessarily does not mean LEARNING NIGHT FIGHT. He could have lit lamp also while practicing archery in the night. Seeing this special effort of Arjun Drona was impressed and he decided to make him the BEST.”

    My ans- Funny & childish claim….. hence invalid…..

    Your statement-“If he wanted he could always stopped kid Arjun from proceeding further being his guru. If he could scheme things out of Eklavya and Karna it was no big shake getting it done from Arjun.”

    My ans- Well again you wont understand this until your UNDERSTANDING grows….. Arjun was the Kuru prince & Drona had promised his bread provider-Dhritrashtra that he would sincerely teach to kuru princes….. So Drona COULD NOT do OPEN CHEATING to Kuru princes…. hence he tried to Cheat Kuru princes secretly (by giving narrow mouthed pots to kuru princes to collect water…. Not allowing Arjun to eat in Dark etc)…. That is why Drona even ordered the servant to NOT TO TELL Arjun that he had barred Arjun from eating in dark….. Eklavya and Karna’s case was different because they were NOT kuru princes, hence no obligation to Drona for them….

    Your statement-“After all Arjun was not there to learn NIGHT FIGHT only…he could have made Arjun learn all other things to prove himself sincere teacher.”

    My ans- So how do you suppose Drna could have made Arjun as the best warrior without teaching him the art of night fight ??? Arjun was not a MORON…. he would have realised the CHEATING of Drona…. just like Arjun realised the tactic of narrow mouthed pots to kuru princes & SECRET CLASSES of Ashwatthama…. And when Arjun negated this tactic of Drona by himself using Varun weapons to fill his pot quickly & return quickly, then after this Drona COULD NOT OPENLY DARE to stop Arjun from attending the SECRET CLASSES of Ashwatthama (offcourse because of the obligation to teach Kuru princes)….

    Your statement-“Why even allow Drona extra burden of carrying bow and arrows….??”

    My ans- Again… you wont understand this until your UNDERSTANDING grows….. Drona used the bows/arrow of Kuru princes…..

    Your statement-“If Drona practically did what even Kripa or for that matter any of good archers of Hastinapur’s army could also do then why need Drona, the best preceptor in town….??”

    My ans- Ha.,.ha…ha….ha… Again… you wont understand this until your UNDERSTANDING grows…. Firstly, Drona got appointed as the Royal perceptor BECAUSE OF recommendation by his Brother-in-law – Kripacharya….. “Grass-blade” event is just an isolated interpolated event to glorify Drona…..

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    1. Read the text again to activate your ‘understanding’ faculties. Arjun was practising archery in the night which has nothing to do with your half-baked grown up understanding of equating it with learning night fight…..Food in your hand will go to your mouth only whether you eat in dark or day. This act will polish your concentration and determination to achieve something under odd conditions. I know SIMPLE things are beyond intelligent minds…..As Rancho proved in 3 IDIOTS that spending billions of dollars to make a pen to save ink in space was a foolish idea by intelligent people. A simple pencil would have saved billions of dollars…..!!

      Varun weapon was also given by Drona only. I do not know about you but it sounds ridiculous to me that cheating Drona was more concerned with Arjun eating in dark rather than hiding weapons from him. Kripa’s recommendation was backed by Kuru princes’ narration of grass blade event. It is you who is talking of your theory in isolation w/o any evidence…..so grow up man to save your image!

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  18. Sachin – Simple… Drona knew that a talented (& eager to learn) student like Arjun will surely get an Idea of learning the art of night fight while eating in Dark, because while eating in Dark, one has to reach his hand upto the food(Chapati, sabji etc) with a GUESS…. Similarly, in night fighting, one has to strike the enemy with a calculated guess without seeing him clearly…..

    Sanjay – My question is still unanswered – “How can somebody EATING FOOD IN THE DARK BE A YARDSTICK of knowing if he can fight in the night or not?” It has nothing to do with what Drona thought. Moreover, your mind will guide food in your hand to your mouth only and not to your nostrils which is no certification to prove the person can fight in the night also…this purely human reflexes which operate naturally and has got nothing to do with one’s fighting talent.

    Sachin – Well you have not got the actual point ……. The point was that Drona DID NOT want to teach Arjun about night fighting skills, hence Drona did not want for Arjun to even get the IDEA that there is special ART of night fighting…. But Arjun GOT THE IDEA of night fighting ART from eating in dark, hence he started practicing himself for Night fighting…. Hence may be later Drona HAD TO TEACH Arjun the complete night fighing ART, because after this Drona could not OPENELY CHEAT Arjun by saying that he wont teach him the ART of night fighting….
    Drona directly taught Ashwatthama the ART of night fighting, so how does the question of “food in the Dark” for Ashwathama comes here ????

    Sanjay – I got your point which ASSUMED CHILDISH THEORY that eating in dark was a yardstick to learn night fight. Dark would eventually happen in Arjun’s life sooner or later so just avoiding food makes no sense. He could have learnt it anyway. This is why you need to explain my first question to establish your theory. However the actual fact of the text you are still missing is that Arjun decided to PRACTICE IN NIGHT and not in FIGHTING IN DARK meaning he extended his hours of learning / training which necessarily does not mean LEARNING NIGHT FIGHT. He could have lit lamp also while practicing archery in the night. Seeing this special effort of Arjun Drona was impressed and he decided to make him the BEST.

    Sachin – Funny UNDERSTANDING of yours….!! As said above, Drona’s main goal was that he did not want for Arjun to even get the IDEA that there is special ART of night fighting… But as soon as Arjun got the IDEA of night fighting(by eating in dark only ONCE), Drona’s plan failed because after this Arjun started practicing for it…. So what’s the point now for “ensuring a lite lamp next day onwards”….??

    Sanjay – Already proved above that your assumption is completely wrong and has NO BASE. If he wanted he could always stopped kid Arjun from proceeding further being his guru. If he could scheme things out of Eklavya and Karna it was no big shake getting it done from Arjun.

    Sachin – Because this would have meant a DIRECT CHEATING by Drona & Arjun would have realised this cheating…..

    Sanjay – Again if he could do injustice DIRECTLY with Eklavya and Karna why not with Arjun? After all Arjun was not there to learn NIGHT FIGHT only…he could have made Arjun learn all other things to prove himself sincere teacher.

    Thus in the light of my questions your theory of Drona cheating Arjun is PUNCTURED and has no relevance except your personal opinion……hence I WIN THIS DEBATE!

    Sachin – Okay, here is the answer…. Firstly Grass-blade event looks like a supernatural point…. The simple practical explaination of this event is that Drona took a bow/arrow, he tied a string to one end of arrow & then he fired that arrow with a bow to hit the ball(arrow gets stuck in the ball)…. then he pulled the arrow & the ball with that tied string to get the ball out of well…… But this simple event was later interpolated with “Grass-blade glorification” plus adding the description of Drona also pulling his Ring with an arrow after the ball……

    Sanjay – Ha….ha….ha…..ha….ha….ha….Even a more PRACTICAL explanation should be that Drona gave them new ball which he was carrying with him..….???? Why even allow Drona extra burden of carrying bow and arrows….?? If Drona practically did what even Kripa or for that matter any of good archers of Hastinapur’s army could also do then why need Drona, the best preceptor in town….?? Apply some common-sense, my friend! You COULD NOT ESTABLISH YOUR POINT HERE ALSO…..

    Like

  19. @ Sanjay,

    Your statement-“How can somebody eating food in the dark be a yardstick of knowing if he can fight in the night or not?”

    My ans- Simple… Drona knew that a talented (& eager to learn) student like Arjun will surely get an Idea of learning the art of night fight while eating in Dark, because while eating in Dark, one has to reach his hand upto the food(Chapati, sabji etc) with a GUESS…. Similarly, in night fighting, one has to strike the enemy with a calculated guess without seeing him clearly…..

    Your statement-“Did Drona instruct his cook to give Ashwathama his food in the Dark to be partial towards his son and to dissuade Arjun from learning NIGHT FIGHT?”

    My ans- Well you have not got the actual point ……. The point was that Drona DID NOT want to teach Arjun about night fighting skills, hence Drona did not want for Arjun to even get the IDEA that there is special ART of night fighting…. But Arjun GOT THE IDEA of night fighting ART from eating in dark, hence he started practicing himself for Night fighting…. Hence may be later Drona HAD TO TEACH Arjun the complete night fighing ART, because after this Drona could not OPENELY CHEAT Arjun by saying that he wont teach him the ART of night fighting….

    Drona directly taught Ashwatthama the ART of night fighting, so how does the question of “food in the Dark” for Ashwathama comes here ????

    Your statement-“Lamp went out only on one night and cook could miss to re-ignite the lamp. But same night Arjun got the idea of practising in night. So instead of getting more strict on ensuring a lite lamp next day onwards why did Drona chose to declare that he would made Arjun the BEST?”

    My ans- Funny UNDERSTANDING of yours….!! As said above, Drona’s main goal was that he did not want for Arjun to even get the IDEA that there is special ART of night fighting… But as soon as Arjun got the IDEA of night fighting(by eating in dark only ONCE), Drona’s plan failed because after this Arjun started practicing for it…. So what’s the point now for “ensuring a lite lamp next day onwards”….??

    Your statement-“Why did Drona not stop Arjun from practising in dark by other means if he found that cook spoiled his plan?”

    My ans- Because this would have meant a DIRECT CHEATING by Drona & Arjun would have realised this cheating…..

    Your statement-“Grass-blade question was from ME to YOU…”

    My ans- Okay, here is the answer…. Firstly Grass-blade event looks like a supernatural point…. The simple practical explaination of this event is that Drona took a bow/arrow, he tied a string to one end of arrow & then he fired that arrow with a bow to hit the ball(arrow gets stuck in the ball)…. then he pulled the arrow & the ball with that tied string to get the ball out of well…… But this simple event was later interpolated with “Grass-blade glorification” plus adding the description of Drona also pulling his Ring with an arrow after the ball……

    Like

  20. @Sachin,

    YOU HAVE CHICKENED OUT ON MY FOLLOWING POST…..

    May 9th, 2016

    Answer my simple questions:-
    1. How can somebody eating food in the dark be a yardstick of knowing if he can fight in the night or not?
    2. Did Drona instruct his cook to give Ashwathama his food in the Dark to be partial towards his son and to dissuade Arjun from learning NIGHT FIGHT?
    3. Lamp went out only on one night and cook could miss to re-ignite the lamp. But same night Arjun got the idea of practising in night. So instead of getting more strict on ensuring a lite lamp next day onwards why did Drona chose to declare that he would made Arjun the BEST?
    4. Why did Drona not stop Arjun from practising in dark by other means if he found that cook spoiled his plan?
    NOW DO NOT TRY CHICKENING OUT BY WAITING FOR SOMEBODY’S ANSWER TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS……
    Grass-blade question was from ME to YOU….you can continue waiting for Mr I’s answer. That has nothing to do with my question….However, if that is your EXCUSE for CHICKENING OUT then tell me…..!!

    Like

  21. @ Mr Invincible,

    Your statement-“I understand the sequence of our discussion but even if I agree that Drona did partiality to Arjuna from those two incidents(seperate lessons to Aswathama and order to cook), then also these incidents took place when the teaching was in the initial phases. So, by this time, Drona was still not completely impressed with Arjuna. So, he treated him like other disciples. First Drona has to build trust on the disciple before he can impart advanced knowledge. That is why he refused to give Brahmastra to Karna. There are no incidents in Mahabharata where Drona did partiality with Arjuna after this.”

    My ans- Since you accepted the partiality angle of Drona, so i dont see any reason to argue further in this topic…… Whatever you said after that is just the justification of Drona’s partiality, which is your opinion & not mentioned in MB…..

    Your statement-“At this stage, Drona gave everything to Arjuna that he gave to Aswathama and even more like withdrawing methods of Brahmashira, chakravyuha, special armour etc(which are unknown to Aswathama).”

    My ans- Sorry, i dont agree that Drona later gave more knowledge to Arjun than Ashwa….. Withdrawing methods of Brahmashira is a Supernatural point, which is refuted by the practical Adiparv passages where Arjun’s Brahmashira nullifies Ashwa’s Brahmashira…..

    And it is not mentioned anywhere that Ashwa did not know about Chakravhiew knowledge….

    Your statement-“here it is mentioned that it is Drona who taught defensive armour to Arjuna who taught it to Abhimanyu. Aswathama was ignorant about it otherwise he would not have been defeated by Abhimanyu.”

    My ans- Just because Ashwa was defeated By Abhimanyu, so it does not mean that Ashwa was not wearing the “defensive armour”….. Arjun defeated Duryo, when Drona himself tied the “defensive armour” on Duryo…..

    Your statement-“Even if Drona gave seperate(private) lessons to Aswathama, it does not come under betrayal of Hastinapur as long as it was ensured that Aswathama is going to be a part of Hastinapur army and will never fight against it.”

    My ans- Sorry, invalid justification….. In the end on 19th day, Aswathama tried to exterminate the Kuru Vansh by killing the Pandavas & their sons…..

    Your statement-“I said Drona is not the only reason for Arjun’s success. However, it is one of the reasons. Other reasons being Arjun’s talent, hardwork, etc.”

    My ans- Yes, i accept Drona was also one of the reason……

    Your statement-“Regarding Nivatakavachas, they were killed by Indra’s vajra, not shiva’s pasupatha. Whatever it is, do you mean that even Narayanastra could have killed them? Then why not Brahmashira? So, the point is they can be killed by Vajra alone and Drona did not have vajra. So, even if Drona tried his best to complete Arjun’s education by giving Narayanastra, he still requires vajra.”

    My ans- Point here is that Drona should have given every possible weapons he possesed to fulfil his promise to make Arjun best…..

    Your statement-“The summary of that passage is that pleased with Drona’s austerities, Lord Narayana entered Drona’s house and asked Drona to ask for a boon. Drona sought Narayanastra. Narayana gave that weapon to Drona. At this time, Aswathama also was in the house, he also worshipped Narayana and pleased with him, Narayana gave boon to Aswa also that he also can use that weapon.”

    My ans- Well, it looks like a Supernatural interpolated part of story….. IF Ashw gets the Narayanastra without doing penaces & during his CHILDHOOD … then certainly it is a ridiculous interpolation……

    The only practical explaination is that Drona gave it to Ashwa……

    Like

  22. Dear Mr I,

    I have never read or heard Shiva saving Indra from Bali but Vishnu. Your puranaic story also says that Vishnu cut Bali short. Indra did fought and defeated many Asuras but as I said Trinity intervened in cases where Indra’s rivals were superior owing to special privileges or boons. Bali example is one such.

    I agree with you that present day puranas may not be authentic because they have been historically traced back to 1500 years old. Present day MB is much older despite being another compilation work by men. However even older MB mentions Puranas then it means Puranas are even older than MB. This further means that Puranas were original at some point in time before MB. But how long back we do not know? You say that brahmanas were also called Puranas. Do we have those brahamanas with us? So logically there is a minimum gap of 3500 years between original and present day puranas which is sufficient to distort their content. So we have two sets of puranas – one coming from Brahmanas as you shared and the other post-MB period. Now we should be more concerned with first set because present day will be glorification by followers. My understanding says that Trinity might have helped Indra sometime in original Puranas and by Kaliyug (1500 years ago) Vishnu was also through incarnations of Ram-Krishna etc. So the writers of present day Purana would have taken that help of Trinity/Vishnu as base story and kind of inter-mingled or related it to incarnations because after all it was Vishnu only who took many forms. This is probably the reason that present day puranas appear awkward and incorrect in timeline.

    Like

  23. This are the views of Maharshi Dayananda saraswathi, a true Vedic scholar.

    THE SCHEME OF STUDIES
    Back to contents

    First of all comes Phonetics (shikshaa) by Panini. Parents and teachers should teach their children and pupils how to pronounce different letters in their right places, with the right amount of effort and the right agent. For example, take the letter P. The

    *Prakriti is held to be the subtlest form of matter, out of which all the visible and the invisible objects of the world are evolved. Prakriti being subtlest and the cause , next in the stage of evolution – a little less subtle than it – comes what is called Mahaatatwa (the principle of wisdom), a stage lower still comes Ahankaara (the principle of Individuality) and so on. – Tr.

    PAGE 70

    right place to pronounce it is the lips, the proper amount of effort is what is called full and the right agent is the tongue.

    Then comes grammar. It includes Ashtaadhayayi; Dhaatupaath (Book of roots), Ganapath (book of groups), Unaadikosh (Book of prefixes and suffixes, etc.). Last of all comes Mahaabhaashya (Exposition of the above four books of Panini or Patanjali.

    If the teachers and their scholars be intelligent, energetic, honest and extremely anxious to advance their knowledge, the pupils can master the Science of Grammar in three years, and thus become profound Grammarians thoroughly acquainted with the construction of every word – Vedic or Laukika (i.e., of ordinary Sanskrit literature)>

    Other sciences are easier to learn. The amount of labour that is required to learn the Science of Grammar is greater than that required to master any other subject; and the amount of knowledge acquired by the study of the above books on Grammar in three years cannot be gained by the study of such books as Saarswata Chandrikaa, Kaumadi, and Manormaa, in fifty years.

    The reason is that the great sages have expounded the most abstruse subjects in their books in such an easy way that it is entirely impossible or ordinary ment to approach it. The aim of those great souls in writng their books was to make the subject so easy as to be readily grasped in the shortest possible time; whilst the object of little minds has always been to clothe their subject with such a difficult-round -about style as would necessitate great labour and waste of time, on the part of the student, to comprehend it, whilst he would profit but very little.

    We can liken this to digging up a whole mountain and finding a penny-worth of gold; whilst the study of the books of the great sages can be well likened to the diving of a man into the sea and finding most valuable pearls in one plunge.

    Then let them read Nighantoo and Nirukta (books on Vedic Vocabulary and Philology) by Yaska in six to eight months, but not waste years of their valuable time over Amarkosha and other such books written by atheists.

    Thereafter they should study Chhandograntha (Prosody) alone are held to be Divine in origin, the rest were made by Rishis – seers of the Veda and Nature.

    Should anything be found even in their writings contrary to the teachings of the Vedaas, it is to be rejected, for the Vedaas alone, being of Divine in Origin, are free from error and aximatic Swataah Pramaana), in other words the Vedaas are their own authority; whilst other books such as the Braahmanaas are Prartaahpramaana, i.e., dependent upon the Vedaas for their authority. They stand or faoll according to their conformity or conflict with the Vedaas.***** The books to be avoided are:-

    Grammar:-a.Katantra, b. Saaraswata, c. Chandrika, d. Mugdhabodha. e. Kaumudi, f. Shekhar, g. Monorma, etc.
    Dictionary – Amarkosha, etc.
    Prosody – Urittaratnakar, etc.
    Shiksha is the Science which teaches the proper pronunciation of words and laws of euphony.
    Atka Shiksham Pravakshyami Pranamyan matam yatha.
    Jotisha (astronomy) – Shighrabodha, Mahurta, Chintaamani, ettc. books on astrology.
    Poetry – Naya ka bheda, Kuvabja nand, Raghuvansha, Maagha, Kiratarjunira, etc.
    Mimansa – Dharmasindhu, Vratarka, etc.
    Visheshika – Tarkasangraha, etc.
    Nyaya -Yogdishaa, etc.
    Yoga – Hathapradipka
    Saankhya – Yagavashishtha, Pancha dashi
    Medical Service – Sharangdhar.
    Smriti – all Smritis except the Manu Smirit arring the interpolated verses.
    all Tantras, Puranaas, Upapuraanaas, Ramaayaana by Tulsi Das, Rukmani Mangala, etc., and all books 9of this kind) written in Bhaashaa.

    They ought to be looked upon as snares; once caught in them a student can never know the truth.

    Is there no truth to be found in these books?
    Back to contents

    A.~ There is a sprinkling of truth mixed with a large amount of rubbish, myths and fabrications; but as even the best food mixed with poison is to be avoided, so should these books.

    Do you not believe in the Puraanaas, Ithihaasa, etc.?
    Back to contents

    A.~ Yes, we do; but only in the true ones, not in the forged ones.

    Q. Which of them ar ture and which forged of false?

    A.~ ” Ithihaasa, Puraana, Kalpa, Gaathaa and Naaraashansi are five names given to Braahmanaas (that have been mentioned before). The Bhaagvat and the like books ar not the real Puraanaas.

    *There are six in number:- Phonetic sciences of morals and duties, Grammar, Philology, Music and astronomy.
    **They are also six in number. They ar the so-called six Schools of Philosophy, see page 71.
    *** & ****They are four in number, and have been enumerated before, see page 71.
    *****or further elucidation of this subject see Chapter 7 of this book as well as our book called “An Introduction to the exposition of the four Vedas.

    PAGE 75

    Why do you not accept whatever truth there is to be found in the condemned books?
    Back to contents

    i Whatever>truth is to be found in them is of the Vedaas and other true Shaastraas, whilst whatever is false in them is of their own invention. With the acceptance of the Veda and other Shaastraas the whole truth is accepted. He, who tries to extract truth from these false books, will have to unavoidably swallow untruth as well. Therefore even truth, which is adulterated with untruth, should be avoided like food adulterated with poison.

    What is your faith?
    Back to contents

    A.~ Vedic. We believe that the Vedaas alone are the supreme authority in the ascertainment of true religion – the true conduct of life. Whatever is enjoined by the Vedaas we hold to be right; whilst whatever is condemned by them we believe to be wrong. Therefore we say that our religion is Vedic. All men, especially the Aryas, should believe in the Vedaas and thereby cultivate unity in religion.

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    1. If Vedas ascertain TRUE CONDUCT OF LIFE as TRUE RELIGION then it misses my objective – God realisation. This means Vedas are not addressing ALL and have MISSED some thoughts in life. By this assessment I am not trying to degrade Vedas but intent to highlight limited understanding of essence of Vedas.

      As shared earlier also, Vedas came as divine message in the form of sound and light to the seers. This is why there is lot of stress on phonetics, sound, alphabets, grammar etc. The seers put them in books for world to practise those instructions. To master them you need very long life span which was available in earlier yugas. As timespan of yugas kept reducing the adherence to Vedas also kept reducing in proportion. With changing times people also changed Vedas to suit prevalent times. So present day Vedas find themselves limited in answering all questions of life……because they have also lost their originality…!

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  24. @ Sanjay

    According to puranic story, Indra and Bali had a battle in which Indra killed him. But he was brought back to life by Shukra using Mrita Sanjeevini. After this, Shukra made him perform many sacrifices and thus made him invincible. After this, Bali conquered Indra and ruled all worlds and became a daanvir. After this, Indra’s mother viz Aditi performed penance to Vishnu to restore Indra’s position. Vishnu appears and gives boon that he will be born as her son and his name is vamana, also known as Upendra as he is Indra’s younger brother. When Bali agreed to give three feet land to Vamana, then, he covered entire earth with one foot, entire sky with another and with the third crushed Bali into Patala.

    Now this story is a part of Vaishnava puranas. If a Shaivaite is asked to describe the same story, the story will be entirely same, but Vishnu/Vamana will be replaced with Shiva.

    The passage posted by me clearly mentions that Indra conquered Prahlada and Samvara beside others. But in Puranas, it is Prahlada who defeats Indra and Samvara is killed by Pradyumna.

    One can easily understand that all puranas were written by ordinary men whose only aim was to promote their god for their own selfish ends.

    Regarding Mahabharata mentioning about puranas, among ancient scriptures there were 4 types, Vedas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas and Upanishads. Of these Brahmanas are also known as puranas and it is these books that are referred to by Mahabharata. Puranas means old stories and how can present puranas most of which describe the lives of Rama and Krishna be called as puranas? And because present day puranas also make references to Ramayan and Mahabharat, they can be considered much later compositions.

    Indra defeated all asuras with his own might and without any external aid. That’s why he is the king of Gods. And the authority of Veda as against all other scriptures is proved by the fact that only Vedic mantras(and not puranic slokas) are used in any ceremony or sacrifice etc.

    Like

    1. And also note the following

      And mounted on this car also Maghavan, had conquered in battle many thousands and millions and hundreds of millions of Daityas.

      Like

  25. Sachin’s statement, “Arjun defeating Nivatkavach with the help of Pashupatastra(given by Indra)” is incorrect. Pashupata was given by Shiva not by Indra.

    Another statement, “Kindly get your facts right, Arjun indeed gave the Sammohana to Drishtdyumna, who used it during MB war….. And may be other Pandava maharathis were not competant enough or responsible enough to learn the methods of firing Pashupath, hence Arjun did not share it…..” reflects complete IGNORANCE of the facts and lack of understanding of MB…

    The responsible Drishtdyumna killed a warrior who was not fighting but meditating. That is no RESPONSIBLE act by any means. Arjun is that case FAILED to judge his RESPONSIBILITY aspect like Drona in case of Ashwathama. Distributing weapons on whims and fancies is also NOT the sign of RESPONSIBILITY as well which Arjun showed. This is why Sammohan of Drishtdyuman could not repeat the result of Virat war. Further Pashupata was NO HALWA weapon to be distributed like candies & chocolates. If it was so then Arjun would not have toiled and licked the soil by fighting Shiva. The sanctity of weapon comes from the giver. If the giver is Brahmin teacher / Devas / concerned deity then it has desired effectiveness than given by somebody who himself has been a RECEIVER from either of them.

    Like

    1. This is how Arjuna killed Nivatakavachas.

      And on myself being covered with crags and on the horses being hard pressed, I became sore distressed and this was marked by Matali. And on seeing me afraid, he said unto me, ‘O Arjuna, Arjuna! be thou not afraid; send that weapon, the thunder-bolt, O lord of men.’ Hearing those words of his, I then discharged the favourite weapon of the king of the celestials–the dreadful thunderbolt. And inspiring the Gandiva with mantras, I, aiming at the locality of the crags, shot sharpened iron shafts of the touch of the thunder-bolt. And sent by the thunder, those adamantine arrows entered into all those illusions and into the midst of those Nivata-Kavachas. And slaughtered by the vehemence of the thunder, those Danavas resembling cliffs, fell to the earth together in masses.

      ——————————————————————————————————–

      Now, read the following passage also.

      And, O ruler of men, startled by the rattling

      p. 342

      of the car, all the celestials, approached (there), taking me to be the king of the celestials. And seeing me, they asked, ‘O Phalguna, what art thou going to do?’ And I told them as it had fallen out,–and said, ‘I shall even do this in battle. Ye that are highly fortunate, know that I have set out desirous of slaying the Nivata-Kavachas. O sinless ones, do ye bless me.’ Thereupon, they began to eulogise me even as they (eulogise) the god, Purandara. And they said, ‘Riding on this car, Maghavan conquered in battle Samvara, and Namuchi, and Vala, and Vritra, and Prahrada, and Naraka. And mounted on this car also Maghavan, had conquered in battle many thousands and millions and hundreds of millions of Daityas. And, O Kaunteya, thou also, riding on this car, by thy prowess shalt conquer the Nivatha-Kavachas in conflict, even as did the self-possessed Maghavan in days of yore. And here is the best of shells; by this also thou shalt defeat the Danavas And by this it is that the high souled Sakra conquered the words.’ Saying this, the gods offered (unto me) this shell, Devadatta, sprung in the deep; and I accepted it for the sake of victory.

      ——————————————————————————————————–

      The above passage clearly mentions Indra conquering number of danavas including Samvara, Namuchi, Vala, Vritra, Prahlada and Naraka. It is also mentioned that by devadatta, Sakra conquered the worlds.

      However, if you look at puranas, you will see Vishnu’s role in all these killings, those Indra achieved by his own might. Most notable is Naraka. It is mentioned that Indra conquered Naraka but puranas and even Mahabharata mentioned Krishna doing it. Similarly Vali(Bali) was conquered by Indra but Vamana’s role is inserted.

      Like

      1. I think it was established during one of our previous duscussions that vedas came first then puranas and then MB. If vedas dnt mention something then puranas are to b relied. Since MB mentions role of both i.e. vishnu and indra then either that is confusing or both can also b correct. Correct..? Because first MB wld b inclined to incorporate info from puranas as well and secondly indra is said to have defeated Naraka but vishnu as krishna got him killed verifying role of both……or else both r doubtful….that is my view

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        1. Vali i m nt sure but i doubt this info of indra defeating him bcs vali was ruling three worlds when vaman had to cut him short by asking donation of three steps. This can only b possible if Vali had posession of heaven (3 worlds being heaven, prithvi & patal) as well which wld mean Indra defeated by Vali and nt vice versa….

          Like

  26. @ Mr Invincible,

    Your statement-“Bhishma referred to Drona’s preceptorship as celebrated and highly meritorious. So, my claim that Bhishma was happy with Drona is punctured but my (new) claim that Bhishma viewed Drona’s services as highly meritorious stands tall.”

    My ans- Buddy, you havent got my point….. Let me give you the sequence of our discussion:

    1. I gave you 2 clear cut examples of Drona’s partiality towards Arjun (Ashwa’s secret classes & No Food at night to Arjun), but instead of Acknowledging this OBVIOUS logic, you brought out some INVALID logic to defend Drona’s actions….

    2. So when i said that your interpretation is INVALID, then you said that MY interpretation(OBVIOUS logic) is also Invalid….. And you asked me to Show the EXACT words from KMG which says that “DRONA CHeated Arjun”…..

    3. Hence in retaliation, i asked you show the EXACT words from KMG which says-
    “Arjun became best because of Drona”
    “Bhishma/Dhritarastra were satisfied with Drona’s teaching”
    “Drona was the BEST teacher”
    ———-

    I did this in order to show you that how ridiculous your attempt was to Ask me to show the Exact words of “DRONA CHeated Arjun” from KMG….. because this is not a matured way of discussion, because we cannot find such exact words…..

    Further, even if it is mentioned that “Bhishma/Dhritarastra were satisfied with Drona’s teaching”, still it does not refute the fact that Drona did partiality with Arjun….. Because getting a GREAT BRAHMIN teacher(Drona) was already a Bonus(Luck) for Hastinapur, so whatever services Bhishma/Dhritarastra got from Drona was a bonus, & hence they has to be satisfied with Drona…..

    Your statement-“I don’t remember saying Arjuna became the greatest only because of Drona. So, the third question is irrevalent.”

    My ans- Well this settles our one point of debate…. So you accepted that Drona was not the sole reason for Arjun becoming the best….. means Arjun could have become the best under any Guru….. Now this is a way of healthy debate…..

    Your statement-“Regarding Parashurama vs Drona, Parashurama is certainly the foremost of warriors and gurus who has trained thousands of Brahmins. And he is a legendary warrior. Drona’s comparison with parashurama on the basis of number of quality students trained is not entirely correct I think because our information is limited to Mahabharat warriors. It could be possible Parashurama had students in Krita yuga who are better than even Bhishma/Drona.”

    My ans- Well this settles our 2nd point of debate that Drona was not the best teacher….. Since you accepted it, so case closed…..

    So now we are only left with one point of discussion & that is -“Whether Drona did partiality with Arjun or not ??” …… And the 2 clear cut examples of Ashwa’s secret classes & No Food at night to Arjun, proves Drona’s partiality towards Arjun……

    Your statement-“Do you consider Arjuna as the greatest warrior? If yes, it means a warrior can become greatest even without Narayanastra. So, Drona’s non imparting Narayanastra becomes non contextual.”

    My ans- Invalid arguement….. “Arjun could become greatest even without Narayanastra”, shows that Arjun was NOT DEPENDENT on Drona to become Greatest….. Which you also accepted above that “Drona was not the sole reason for Arjun becoming the best”…..

    Further, Arjun defeating Nivatkavach with the help of Pashupatastra(given by Indra), also proves the point that if Arjun had settled for Drona’s incomplete education, then Arjun would not have become the Greatest…..

    A teacher would do everything possible to make his Student as the best, including imparting knowledge of Narayanastra….. But Drona didnt…..

    Further, the point here was “PARTIALITY OF DRONA” towards Arjun & other Kuru Princes….. And this “PARTIALITY OF DRONA” is clearly proved by the above 2 Examples plus the Narayastra example….. It was Arjun’s OWN talent, hard work & further education (from Devas) that Arjun became the Greatest, otherwise Ashwatthma could not become great even after getting Narayanstra & Secret classes by Drona….

    Your statement-“1. Why Arjuna did not share Pasupatha/Sammohana with other pandava maharathis?”

    My ans- I dont know why are you asking this NOn-contextual question…… Kindly get your facts right, Arjun indeed gave the Sammohana to Drishtdyumna, who used it during MB war….. And may be other Pandava maharathis were not competant enough or responsible enough to learn the methods of firing Pashupath, hence Arjun did not share it…..

    Your statement-“2. Why Arjuna(who was capable of becoming greatest by himself) could not complete his education? Why he could not by himself acquire Narayanastra etc?”

    My ans- Invalid point…. I did not say that Arjun DID NOT require any teacher…. But i said he could have become best under any teacher…… Narayanastra point already explained above… Since Drona did not give him Narayanastra(& many more ?), hence Arjun went to Devlok to fill his deficiencies of celestial weapons.. but still Arjun could not get Narayanastra from Devas….

    Your statement-“3. Prove that Aswathama received Narayanastra from Drona”

    My ans- Okay, if you have passages which says that Ashwattham received Narayanastra from someone else than plese give…. I will accept it…..

    Your statement-“4. I have withdrawn my claims and made new claims(for your questions) which are backed. Similarly prove your claim by backing it by KMG that Drona did not wish Arjuna to become greatest or withdraw your claim and come up with new claim.”

    My ans- Facts of MB do not change just because you play a “Game of words”(changing claims)….. I gave the facts of Mb which clearly proves my point… so why should i change my claim…..

    Like

    1. I understand the sequence of our discussion but even if I agree that Drona did partiality to Arjuna from those two incidents(seperate lessons to Aswathama and order to cook), then also these incidents took place when the teaching was in the initial phases. So, by this time, Drona was still not completely impressed with Arjuna. So, he treated him like other disciples. First Drona has to build trust on the disciple before he can impart advanced knowledge. That is why he refused to give Brahmastra to Karna. There are no incidents in Mahabharata where Drona did partiality with Arjuna after this. Arjuna impressed Drona with his Guru Bhakthi and slowly Drona started liking Arjuna even more than Aswathama. At this stage, Drona gave everything to Arjuna that he gave to Aswathama and even more like withdrawing methods of Brahmashira, chakravyuha, special armour etc(which are unknown to Aswathama).

      Read the following

      The preceptor then, slowly and with a smile, said unto Karna, ‘Abhimanyu is young, his prowess is great. His coat of mail is impenetrable. This one’s father had been taught by me the method of wearing defensive armour. This subjugator of hostile towns assuredly knoweth the entire science (of wearing armour).

      So, here it is mentioned that it is Drona who taught defensive armour to Arjuna who taught it to Abhimanyu. Aswathama was ignorant about it otherwise he would not have been defeated by Abhimanyu.

      After giving Brahmashira, Drona even made Arjuna to swear that in future if Drona attacks him, he should attack back. So, Drona was so much confident in Arjun’s guru bhakthi that he felt that in future war, even if he attacks Arjun, Arjun will not strike back. The same faith perhaps did not exist in Drona in the beginning.

      Even if Drona gave seperate(private) lessons to Aswathama, it does not come under betrayal of Hastinapur as long as it was ensured that Aswathama is going to be a part of Hastinapur army and will never fight against it.

      I said Drona is not the only reason for Arjun’s success. However, it is one of the reasons. Other reasons being Arjun’s talent, hardwork, etc. Abdul Kalam may be a highly talented scientist but if he did not study in a prestigeous institution like Anna University(under eminent professors) but instead studied in an ordinary institution with ill-qualified faculty, despite all his talent and hardwork would he have become the same great scientist and missile-man?

      Regarding Drona vs Parashurama, there is no emotional bonding between Parashurama and his best student Bhishma. So, Bhishma did not find it difficult to fight his Guru but Arjuna had emotional bonding with Drona and he was willing to forego sovereignty for his Guru’s life. So, Parashurama’s teaching is more mechanical.

      Regarding Nivatakavachas, they were killed by Indra’s vajra, not shiva’s pasupatha. Whatever it is, do you mean that even Narayanastra could have killed them? Then why not Brahmashira? So, the point is they can be killed by Vajra alone and Drona did not have vajra. So, even if Drona tried his best to complete Arjun’s education by giving Narayanastra, he still requires vajra.

      The weapon fired by Dhristadyumna is pramohana and not sammohana. In Virat war, Drona did not know counter to sammohan but in Kuruksetra, pramohana was neutralized with Drona’s prajna further proving that those weapons were different.

      The reason why I asked this question is to show that Arjuna cannot give those weapons to others, they have to acquire them directly from gods. Similarly Drona cannot give Narayanastra to Arjun, it has to be given directly by Narayana.

      I have already posted passages about how Aswathama got Narayanastra. The summary of that passage is that pleased with Drona’s austerities, Lord Narayana entered Drona’s house and asked Drona to ask for a boon. Drona sought Narayanastra. Narayana gave that weapon to Drona. At this time, Aswathama also was in the house, he also worshipped Narayana and pleased with him, Narayana gave boon to Aswa also that he also can use that weapon.

      So, the point is, it is Lord Narayana alone who gave Narayanastra to both Drona and Aswathama. It did not pass from Narayana to Drona and then from Drona to Aswathama. And just as Arjuna did not have power to give his Pasupatha and sammohana weapons to others, Drona also did not have power to give this weapon to others.

      Like

  27. Dear Mr I,

    I got this information about Puranas on internet:-

    Puranas for Lord Vishnu (Sattva Guna):

    1. Vishnu Purana – Vishnu Purana contains description about the varnasrama, description about the angas of the Veda, description about SVETA VARAHA KALPA, description about Vishnu dharmotara, description about the age of Kali. Vishnu Purana contains totally 23,000 verses.

    2. Naradiya Purana – This Purana explaning about various places and description about Jagannatha Puri, Dwaraka, Bhadrinatha and various other Places will be given. This Purana contains the synopsis of everything. Naradiya Purana contains totally 25,000 verses.

    3. Padma Purana – This Purana contains the story of Rama, Ekadasi, Bhrgu, Matsys etc. This Purana also contains the synopsis of everything. Padma Purana contains totally 55,000 verses

    4. Garuda Purana – This Garuda Purana is the one that contains the Bhagavath gita subjects and also the reincarnation. Along with this it also contains the description of TARSYA KALPA and also the Vishnu Sahasra Nama. Garuda Purana contains totally 19,000 verses.

    5. Varaha Purana – The Varaha Purana explains about the glory of the Lord Vishnu. Varaha Purana also describes different Vratas. Varaha Purana contains totally 24,000 verses.

    6. Bhagavata Purana – Bhagavata Purana also explains about Lord Vishnu. Bhagavata Purana contains totally 18,000 verses.

    Puranas of Lord Brahma (Rajo Guna):

    7. Brahmanda Purana – This Brahmanda Purana provides description about ADI KALPA. Description about Vedangas is also given in Brahmanda Purana. Brahmanda Purana contains totally 12,000 verses.

    8. Brahmavaivarta Purana – It contains the pastimes of Radha and Krishna and also the glories of the Radha and Krishna. Brahmavaivarta Purana contains totally 18,000 verses.

    9. Markandeya Purana – It contains the stories of Rama and Krishna together. Markandeya Purana contains totally 9,000 verses

    10. Bhavisya Purana – It contains the devotional service along with the glories and prediction of Lord Chaitanya. Bhavisya Purana contains totally 14,500 verses.

    11. Vamana Purana – It Contains the story of Lord Trivikrama. Vamana Purana contains totally 10,000 verses.

    12. Brahma Purana – It contains the details about the Purushottama Tirtha in the second part and the details about the life and deeds of Rama and Krishna in the first part. Brahma Purana contains totally 10,000 verses.

    Puranas of Lord Shiva (Tamo Guna)

    13. Matsya Purana – This Purana provides details about the construction of the temples and provides description about the VAMANA AND VARAHA KALPAS. Matsya Purana contains totally 14,000 verses.

    14. Kurma Purana – This Purana contains the conversation between the Lord Krishna and the Sun God as mentioned in the Bhagvad Gita. It also contains the conversation between the Danvantari who is the one who cures the diseases. This also describes about the LAKSHMI KALPA. Kurma Purana contains totally 17,000 verses.

    15. Linga Purana – This Purana contains the glory of Gayatri and also stories of Ambarisa. The Purana explains the Glory of Janardhana and Lord Nrismhadeva. Linga Purana contains totally 10,000 verses.

    16. Shiva Purana – Shiva Purana is the one that describes the greatness and dedicated to the Hindu god Shiva. Shiva Purana contains totally 24,000 verses.

    17. Skanda Purana – Skanda Purana is devoted to the Lord Muruga explaining about the life and deed of karthikeya. It also contains the greatness of Lord Shiva. Skanda Purana is the largest Purana among all the 18 Puranas. Skanda Purana contains totally 81,000 verses.

    18. Agni Purana – It provides the description about ISANA KALPA. It also contains the description about the Salagrama.

    All the Puranas are described and created in such a way to give descriptions on five different subjects. There is also a sloka that gives explanation about the five different subject descriptions. These Puranas also provides the description on various activities and various Dharmas that are carried out. The Puranas are described by the Amarkhosa. The following slokas also provides description.

    sargas ca pratisarga ca
    vamsa manvantarani ca
    vamsanu caritam capi
    puranam panca laksanam

    This sloka provides the five different subjects on which the description is made in the puranas. They are

    1. Sarga – This describes about the CREATION WORK OF THE GODS.
    2. Pratisarga – This describes about the RECREATION OF THE GODS.
    3. Vamsha – This particular subject is the description about the history of the sages.
    4. Manvantara – This explains about the period of Manu and description about Manu.
    5. Vamsanucarita – This particular subject is the description based on the genealogy of the kings based on the Vamsa.

    My comments – Sarga and Pratisarga talks about CREATION & RECREATION of GODs verifying my point that even Gods have limited lives. If you read description of Puranas above there is mention of KALPS (capital lettered) descriptions in them. What is a KALP..?

    “Kalpa (Sanskrit: कल्प kalpa) is a Sanskrit word meaning an aeon, or a relatively long period of time (by human calculation) in Hindu and Buddhist cosmology. Generally speaking, a kalpa is the period of time between the creation and recreation of a world or universe.[3] The definition of a kalpa equaling 4.32 billion years is found in the Puranas—specifically Vishnu Purana and Bhagavata Purana
    In Hinduism (cf. Hindu Time Cycles), it is equal to 4.32 billion years, a “day of Brahma” or one thousand mahayugas,[4] measuring the duration of the world. Each kalpa is divided into 14 manvantara periods, each lasting 71 yuga cycles (306,720,000 years). Preceding the first and following each manvatara period is a juncture (sandhya) the length of a Satya-yuga (1,728,000) years.[7] Two kalpas constitute a day and night of Brahma. A “month of Brahma” is supposed to contain thirty such days (including nights), or 259.2 billion years. According to the Mahabharata, 12 months of Brahma (=360 days) constitute his year, and 100 such years the life cycle of the universe. Fifty years of Brahma are supposed to have elapsed, and we are now in the shvetavaraha kalpa of the fifty-first; at the end of a kalpa the world is annihilated.”

    My comments – This means Puranas are talking about various Kalps. Since we are reading MB of present Kalp we tend to find dis-similarities between MB and Puranas’ stories. According to another website Ashwathama will be Ved Vyas in next Kalp and he will be among Saptrishis of that Kalp. So we can infer very easily that in the unending timeline our available scriptures cannot offer anything REAL, SCIENTIFIC & ACCURATE in them. My feeling is since time immemorial Rishis/sages/spiritual (SEERS) personalities saw all these happenings of past, present and future while travelling inside and they mentioned them in the books. Somehow books over long period got distorted due to lost information, interpolations, clerical errors etc and we are having confusion galore in front of us. I hope it answers your question why Puranas are relatively confusing….?

    Like

    1. I appreciate your efforts in trying to steer clear my confusion, I’ll give my comments on it later but for now how is it that no purana describes(in correctness) the exploits of Indra?

      Coming to Drona-Parashurama, I did not complete my previous post. My view is as follows.

      Let all the warriors be classified into 5 groups. superathirathis, atirathis, maharathis, rathis and artharathis. Each group is assigned some marks, say 100, 80, 60, 40 and 20 respectively. Now, suppose Drona trains 10 maharathis, his score is 10*60=600. Similarly for training 5 atirathis, the score will be 5*80=400 and so on. Similarly for Parashurama also. Finally we should divide the total score with number of students trained. This gives final score. Comparing final scores, we can decide the overall best teacher.

      Let us take the following example.
      1. Parashurama
      Total number of students trained is 10000
      out of them,
      no of superathirathis 10
      no of atirathis 100
      no of maharathis 990
      no of rathis 3900
      no of artharathis 5000

      The score of Parashurama will be 10*100+100*80+990*60+3900*40+5000*20
      which equals 1000+8000+59400+156000+100000 = 324400
      So, the final score will be 324400/10000 = 32.44

      We can calculate Drona’s score also similarly and then compare them. But we don’t have information from other yugas. Depending only on Mahabharat will tilt the result in favor of Parashurama as he produced 2 athirathis and 1 maharathi while some of Drona’s students ended up becoming rathis and artharathis also. (There could be artharathis among Parashurama’s disciples also in previous yugas).

      Like

      1. As you can see Puranas are dedicated to Trinity. May be in some Indra would surely find mention…..

        Your approach of quantifying Drona and Parasurama is good but we can compare them at MB times only. Otherwise Parasurama will get undue advantage because Drona was not present in earlier times.

        Like

        1. Do we have specific definitions of Atirathi, maharathi or rathis etc. in MB? I think we are dependent on What Bhishma thought while categorising warriors.

          I do not know the source of information but this is what wiki says about various class of warriors:-

          Rathi[edit]

          A warrior capable of attacking 5,000 warriors simultaneously.[citation needed]

          Atirathi[edit]

          A warrior capable of contending with 12 Rathi class warriors or 60,000 warriors simultaneously.[citation needed]

          Maharathi[edit]

          A warrior capable of fighting 12 Atirathi class warriors or 720,000[citation needed] warriors simultaneously, circumspect in his mastery of all forms of weapons and combat skills. Narsimha, Rama, Lakshman, Bharata, Shatrughna, Vali, Karna, Parshurama, Kartavirya Arjuna, Ravana, Kumbhakarna, Sugreeva, Mahishasura, Narakasuran, Lava, Kusha, Jambavan, Jalandhara, Hanuman, Krishna, Balram, Jarasandha, Kamsa and devas in heaven like Indra were maharathis.

          Atimaharathi[edit]

          Victory of Meghanad by Raja Ravi Varma

          A warrior capable of fighting 12 Maharathi warriors simultaneously. Ravana’s son Indrajit (Meghanada) is considered as a Mahamaharathi warrior. He was an expert in magic or illusion and at a very young age, Meghanada became the possessor of almost all types of supreme celestial weapons, under the guidance of Shukra, the guru of the daitya(demons). He is considered as the most powerful and the only warrior who ever possessed the three ultimate weapons of Trimurti i.e.Brahmanda astra, Vaishnava astra and Pashupatastra.[3] He even twice defeated Rama and Lakshman. Indrajit killed 670 million Vanara’s in a single day, nearly exterminated the entire half man-half monkey race[4][not in citation given][5][page needed].

          Mahamaharathi[edit]

          A warrior capable of fighting 24 Atimaharathi warriors simultaneously. Warriors who can be called Mahamaharathis are Shiva, Vishnu, Shakti, Brahma, Ganesha, Bhandasura, Varahi, Shyamala, Tripura Sundari, Kameswara and 10 Mahavidyas.[6]

          I read somewhere that Mahamaharathi never happened among humans because no 24 Atimaharathis were ever present at the same time…..

          Like

          1. Within Mahabharata, the terms maharathi and athirathi are used almost interchangeably. However Athirathi seems slightly superior to maharathis. A warrior who fights on foot is of the lowest rank. A horseman is capable of fighting many(no precise number) foot soldiers and a chariot fighter(rathi) can fight with many horsemen. An atirathi or a maharathi is capable of fighting many rathis and also leading many rathis. So, these are given commandership over akshohinis. I think the terms atimaharathi and mahamaharathi are not original. Among the list of mahamaharathis, who is this bhandasura,a rare mention?

            Like

            1. This means even MB is also nt clear about warrior classes.

              Your classification criteria is logical but i think there shld b something more to it bcs even soldiers or their supervisors would also fight on horses and low grade chariots…..

              I know up till Ganesha and none beyond him.

              Like

  28. Regarding Parashurama vs Drona, Parashurama is certainly the foremost of warriors and gurus who has trained thousands of Brahmins. And he is a legendary warrior. Drona’s comparison with parashurama on the basis of number of quality students trained is not entirely correct I think because our information is limited to Mahabharat warriors. It could be possible Parashurama had students in Krita yuga who are better than even Bhishma/Drona.

    Like

  29. @ Sachin

    Your 2 statements

    My ans- Invalid personal opinion….

    My ans- Same Invalid point…. Already said, a Child’s point of view & jeoulousy is NON-CONTEXTUAL…..

    If my opinion on blade grass example is personal opinion, then your opinion on childhood jealousy is eqally personal and hence invalid by your own logic. So, bring some valid logic(which is not your personal opinion) to defend Arjun’s disturbance from Ekalavya/Aswathama.

    Regarding your three questions,

    Look at the following passage

    The preceptor of all Kshatriyas of royal lineage, the venerable preceptor, will exterminate the Srinjayas. Dhananjaya, however, is dear to him. This mighty bowman, therefore, remembering his own celebrated and highly meritorious services as preceptor, will never be able to slay Partha who is capable of achieving great feats without any trouble. O hero, Drona always boasteth of the numerous accomplishments of Partha. Indeed, Bharadwaja looketh on him with greater affection than on his own son.

    ——————————————————————————————————–

    Bhishma referred to Drona’s preceptorship as celebrated and highly meritorious. So, my claim that Bhishma was happy with Drona is punctured but my (new) claim that Bhishma viewed Drona’s services as highly meritorious stands tall.

    Regarding second question, it is mentioned several times that Drona is the best of preceptors. (I’ll post them if you need). Once again my claim that Drona is the best teacher is punctured because the word teacher is not used but my (new) claim that Drona is the best of preceptors stands tall.

    I don’t remember saying Arjuna became the greatest only because of Drona. So, the third question is irrevalent.

    Like

    1. @ sachin

      There are a few questions dodged by you. If you have any valid answer for any of them, you can come up.

      1. Why Arjuna did not share Pasupatha/Sammohana with other pandava maharathis?

      2. Why Arjuna(who was capable of becoming greatest by himself) could not complete his education? Why he could not by himself acquire Narayanastra etc?

      3. Prove that Aswathama received Narayanastra from Drona

      4. I have withdrawn my claims and made new claims(for your questions) which are backed. Similarly prove your claim by backing it by KMG that Drona did not wish Arjuna to become greatest or withdraw your claim and come up with new claim.

      And one final question.

      Do you consider Arjuna as the greatest warrior? If yes, it means a warrior can become greatest even without Narayanastra. So, Drona’s non imparting Narayanastra becomes non contextual. If no, then it means that Arjuna is not the greatest warrior, which further means that Arjuna is dependent on Drona(and his Narayanastra) to become the greatest.

      Like

  30. Sachin – Further, Drona extracted the ball by throwing BLADES OF GRASS with hands one by one so as to make a rope of BLADES OF GRASS …… So do you expect Such special skills to be mastered by kids in their initial phase of education….?? So your example is invalid…..

    Sanjay – AND what is SCIENTIFIC & PRACTICAL in this….??? DO NOT CHICKEN OUT…!!

    ==============
    Sachin either you have problem in understanding things as they are or you have habit of looking at things from wrong angle….….read the text below:

    “And Drona, beholding his pupil’s devotion to arms, summoned the cook, and told him in secret, ‘Never give Arjuna his food in the dark, nor tell him that I have told thee this.’ A few days after, however, when Arjuna was taking his food, a wind arose, and thereupon the lamp that had been burning went out. But Arjuna, endued with energy, continued eating in the dark, his hand, from habit, going to his mouth. His attention being thus called to the force of habit, the strong-armed son of Pandu set his heart upon practising with his bow in the night. And, O Bharata, Drona, hearing the twang of his bowstring in the night, came to him, and clasping him, said, ‘Truly do I tell thee that I shall do that unto thee by which there shall not be an archer equal to thee in this world.”

    The text says Drona asked cook not to give food to Arjun in the DARK yet he was given food in the DARK. This means he had some other plan in mind because food was still being served in the night. Now one day lamp went out and Arjun continued eating in the DARK. If Drona had other intentions he would have ensured lamp be ignited again…..This gave Arjun confidence and ability to develop unwavering ATTENTION. Due to this ATTENTION he thought of practicing archery in the NIGHT. When Drona saw his special efforts he knew he could turn him into THE BEST hence promised so…..

    Now any person with a bit of BRAIN and INTELLIGENCE will realize that this was a motivational technique of Drona to develop Arjun’s potential like he tested him during crocodile event or bird eye contest. When coaches tell bowlers to hit coin on 22 yards pitch that does not mean that they are partial towards batsmen they are training. Teachers/coaches do apply such techniques to bring forth potential of the learners…..I hope this will ENTER YOUR EMPTY HEAD NOW…!!

    Like

    1. @ Sanjay,

      So going by YOUR logic, Drona did not give Brahmastra to Karna because Drona knew that Karna will forget the technique of firing Brahmastra in crunch situation (Like 17th day war with Arjun), because of Karna’s poor talent…… Hence Drona knew that Karna would be a far better warrior WITHOUT Brahmastra in his arsenal…. BUT Karna could not acknowledge this “motivational technique” of Drona to develop Karna’s potential & he left Drona’s school…. Further Parshuram spoiled this “Smart motivational technique of Drona” by giving the knowledge of Brahmastra to Karna…….!! Poor Karna…… So going by YOUR logic, it was not Drona, but it was Parshuram who spoiled the career of Karna, hence Karna got his a** kicked by every tom/dick/harry all his life……!!

      Similarly, going by YOUR logic, Drona knew that Eklavya would be a far better warrior if he becomes left handed warrior, hence Drona cut the right thumb of Eklavya…… BUT Eklavya could not acknowledge this “motivational technique” of Drona to develop Eklavya’s potential…..

      So Sanjay Miyaan, going by YOUR OWN logic, Drona did no partiality with Karna & Eklavya….

      Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…. What a kooook-dooo-kooooooon logic by Sanjay…..!! I hope now you know how much rubbish thoughts wander inside your EMPTY HEAD NOW…..!! Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha….

      Like

      1. I thought you had EMPTY HEAD at least BUT your reply verifies that you DO NOT HAVE HEAD AT ALL and your thinking originates from somewhere else…I rightly pointed out that you have UNDERSTANDING PROBLEM……HAVE YOU UNDERSTOOD WHAT I SAID….???

        Your understanding of my simple and detailed post is APPALLING. Don’t you have that much BRAIN to see the difference in what Drona did to Karn/Eklavya and Arjun….?? What Drona did to Karn and Eklavya was not in SECRET but what he planned for Arjun was in SECRET. This means he was not motivating but CONFIDENTLY rejecting Karna and Eklavya…..As i said if he had other intentions lamp would have been re-ignited or cook would have been instructed never allow Arjun to face DARK….

        You will stay IDIOT as long as you keep thinking ENGLISH…!

        Like

        1. And you again CHICKENED OUT on Grass Blade question…..!!

          kooook-dooo-kooooooon ENGLISH COCK…..Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…. Ha..ha..ha…

          Like

          1. @ Sanjay,

            Arey Dhakkan, your IDIOTIC brain is filled with IDIOTIC logics…. An IDIOT like you will never understand that Dinner is done at NIGHT only where there is darkness everywhere… And during MB period only burning lamps were used at night to enlighten the room…. Drona’s instruction were not to give food to Arjun in a Dark room(where there is no lamp), so that Arjun cannot get the idea of Night fighting learning…… So suppose if the servants gave the food to Arjun in a room with a lamp & went to their kitchen (for some other work) & in the meantime while eating, the lamp went out due to wind, so how are the servants supposed to know that the room where Arjun is eating has gone dark ?? So it was just the luck that Arjun got to know about Night fight….. IF the lamp had not went out, then may be Arjun may not have got this Idea of night fight ever & Drona would have succeeded in Cheating Arjun again…….

            And i purposefully did not give the answer to the Grass-Blade question, because i first want to finish my discussion with Mr I on this point…..

            And, You will stay IDIOT as long as you do not pass your Kindergarten EXAMS …. And NOBODY CARES WHAT AN IDIOT LIKE YOU THINKS….. Ha..ha..ha….

            Like

            1. Answer my simple questions:-

              1. How can somebody eating food in the dark be a yardstick of knowing if he can fight in the night or not?

              2. Did Drona instruct his cook to give Ashwathama his food in the Dark to be partial towards his son and to dissuade Arjun from learning night fight?

              3. Lamp went out only on one night and cook could miss to re-ignite the lamp. But same night Arjun got the idea of practising in night. So instead of getting more strict on ensuring a lite lamp next day onwards why did Drona chose to declare that he would made Arjun the BEST?

              4. Why did Drona not stop Arjun from practising in dark by other means if he found that cook spoiled his plan?

              NOW DO NOT TRY CHICKENING OUT BY WAITING FOR SOMEBODY’S ANSWER TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS……

              Grass-blade question was from ME to YOU….you can continue waiting for Mr I’s answer. That has nothing to do with my question….However, if that is your EXCUSE for CHICKENING OUT then tell me…..!!

              Like

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