Has anybody read the original Valmeeki Ramayana ?? If yes, then can anybody tell me how many kings of Ragukul lineage who ruled Ayodhya has been mentioned before Ram & after Ram ..??
Dear Sachin, Valmiki Ramayana doesnt mention descendants of Rama. Some Sanskrit scholars are challanging uttar kanda. Srimad bhagwatha mentions brihadbala a descendant of Rama killed by abhimanyu This brihadbala being killed by abhimanyu is mentioned in kmg BUT BRIHADBALA IN KMG IS NOT MENTIONED AS RAMAS DESCENDANT.
I had also read online about “brihadbala a descendant of Rama killed by abhimanyu”, but is this info from Srimad bhagwatha or Vishnu Puraan ??
Further, Vishnu Puraan gives a list of 145 kings in the Raghukul(or Ikshvaku Dynasty of Surya Vamsam)(Ram being the 81st king)…!! What do u say about Vishnu Puraan ??
Also, Kalidas’ Raghuvamsham says that there were 24 Kings after Ram… How did Kalidas knew about Raghukul because Kalidas wrote his book in 500 AD…!!
Dear Sachin. I am sorry I have not read Vishnu puraan. But Srimad bhagwatha I have some vague idea. Sukadeva tells parikshit that brihadbala descendant of Rama was killed by your father. I am little curious about your surprise on kalidasa knowing raghukul in 500 AD as Rama existed before him. So kalidasa having some access to lineage of Rama shouldnt be surprising. Although I dont consider Kalidasa as a final authority. But yes since he existed in such earlier times he could have had access to some authentic material
Long time…
I just came across an interesting point about Mahabharat, so i wanted to share with u all:-
Discovery of under water Dwarka & the timing of Mahabharat war:
It is amusing to note that the under water submerged city of Dwarka of lord Krishna has been discovered by the Marine Archaeological Unit (MAU) of the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) under the supervision of Dr S. R. Rao between 1983 and 1990.
Dr S.R.Rao’s team came across discoveries that cemented the existence of a submerged Dwarka city of lord Krishna.
It was concluded that Dwarka submerged under sea in 1500 BC.
Dr S.R.Rao submitted a proposal to the Ministry of Culture in January 2000, that aimed at preserving the ‘underwater cultural heritage of India Dwarka’ and also promoting it as a pilgrimage-tourism center. But the proposal was not taken up by the Ministry of Culture..!!
Now, the points which baffles me are:
– Foreign countries do not consider India’s ancient History of Ramayan/Mahabharat as real, because we cannot give them any proof of them
– But the Discovery of under water Dwarka clearly proves the existence of Krishna & the History of Mahabharat
– Further it also proves the timing of Mahabharat which happened around 1500 BC, 36 years before Dwarka submerged under sea
– Now, even after getting this significant Discovery of under water Dwarika, the Govt of India still hasnt tried to preserve this ‘underwater cultural heritage of India-Dwarka’ and has not been promoting it as a pilgrimage-tourism center.
– Even though under-water Dwarka can be the greatest Pilgrimage for Indians, because it was the city of Lord Krishna, still the Govt of India is turning a blind-eye towards it…!! Strange….!!
——————————-
The only reason for this apathy of Govt of India towards under-water Dwarka could be that we Indians claim that our ancient History of Ramayan/Mahabharat is the oldest in the world i.e. around 9000 to 10000 BC old, but the Discovery of under water Dwarika clearly proves that Ramayan/Mahabharat was not that much old but they happened around 2000-1500 BC, which makes civilization of ancient India younger to Mesopotamia (7000 BC). This is just like lying to oneself.
Even if India’s ancient history(2000 BC) is younger to Mesopotamia (7000 BC), still it doesnt make our ancient history as less valuable. Govt of India should explore the under-water Dwarka in detail because we Indians deserve to know the REAL truth about our ancient history & its time period. Further, Govt of India should preserve this ‘underwater cultural heritage of India-Dwarka’ and promote it as a pilgrimage-tourism center.
Wow… Hi Niraj… Didnt expect to get so quick response from you… Nice to see you in this blog….
Based on archeological evidence, Ramayana happened first… In Iraq, a stone wall sculpture (mural) of Ram was found dated 2000 BC… while MB happened in 1500 BC
Also, In Vyas MB, there is mention of Ramayan stories in bits & pieces, which also proves the same…
Dear Sachin I am also of the opinion that Ramayana must have happened earlier. In mb we see some ramayana characters mentioned and stories told. But some fb friends of mine came with following points. They claim there are two ways of looking at this question One from believing in scriptures unquestioningly. The second is a scientific approach, where evidence outside the srciptures or epics, and social customs, topography and other archaelogical evidence is taken into account.Ramayana and MahaBharata have totally differnt Social Customs and topography in them.Let me first deal with the evidence of Geography. Mahabharata, deals with Kings and lands which were all above Vindhya Range. While Gandhara is mentioned, there are no mentions of any South India topography. MahaBharata also mentions that Krishna drove his chariot from Indraprasth(DELHI) to Dwarka, along the banks of **Saraswati**, which means, in the times of Mhabharata, Saraswati was ALIVE!!! Ramayana, the geography extends to Maharashtra, South India and SriLanka.There is no mention of Saraswati, only of Sarayu. In (http://man.In) Mahabharata, the Kingdom could be divided among brothers. But in Ramayana , only the eldest could inherit the Kingdom. Social customs take a long time to evolve and be codified. NIYOGA is not acceptable today as was the case during Ramayana. Rama refuses to accept the offsprings still in the womb of Seeta, while in Kuru dynasty, everyone accepts the Offspring as their own, even when they are derived from different origins Geography enlarges when you actually wander around.From the above evidences, Ramayana was later. Can you elobarate on this stone wall in Iraq, ?
As u know, i am the guy who believes in facts & not assumptions… If someone gives me evidences which prove that Ramayan was later than MB than i will be more than happy to accept it because for me this topic is not for debate or to glorify my knowledge/ego but to actually find out the truth about Ramayan/MB….
Regarding your point of differences in “Social customs” of Ramayan & MB, this point is very shallow & not concrete…… E.g. 30 years from today (i.e. in 1990’s AD), if a young girl was seen wearing a Jeans or roaming around with her boyfriend then it was considered as obscene but today nobody even cares….. so u can see just 30 years can change the standards of “Social customs” … and the difference between Ramayan & MB was around 1000 years(debatable), so “Social customs” between these 2 eras cannot be compared to decide their timing….
U can google “iraq mural of Ram” to know more details about it….
I will give some more evidences later regarding the dates of MB & Ramayan….
Actually none BORI and Kmg are accurate. None had access to original Mahabharata :
BORI ;
To prevent misconception in the mind of the casual reader, it is best to state at
first what the constituted text is not.1
The editor is firmly convinced that the text presented in this edition is not anything like the autograph copy of the work of its
mythical author, Maharṣi Vyāsa. It is not, in any sense, a reconstruction of the
UrMahābhārata or of the UrBhārata , that ideal but impossible desideratum. It is also
not an exact replica of the poem recited by Vaiśampāyana before Janamejaya. It is
further wholly uncertain how close it approaches the text of the poem said to be recited
by the Sūta (or Sauti) before Saunaka and the other dwellers of the Naimiṣa forest.
Kmg :
cannot lay claim to infallibility. There are verses in the Mahabharata that are exceedingly difficult to construe. I have derived much aid from the great commentator Nilakantha. I know that Nilakantha’s authority is not incapable of being challenged. But when it is remembered that the interpretations given by Nilakantha came down to him from preceptors of olden days, one should think twice before rejecting Nilakantha as a guide.
About the readings I have adopted, I should say that as regards the first half of the work, I have generally adhered to the Bengal texts; as regards the latter half, to the printed Bombay edition. Sometimes individual sections, as occurring in the Bengal editions, differ widely, in respect of the order of the verses, from the corresponding ones in the Bombay edition. In such cases I have adhered to the Bengal texts, convinced that the sequence of ideas has been better preserved in the Bengal editions than the Bombay one.
KMG is the most authentic version of Original Mahabharat, because it is an “as-it-is” translation of original Sanskrit text of MB…. while BORI is not an “as-it-is” translation of MB but it contains the interpretation of the author, hence non-authentic..
Is there any debator who is online here
Arjuna was indeed better than Karna because he crushed Karna multiple times
1) twice in Virat wars
2) defeated on 14th night
3) killed armed Karna
So we can safely conclude that who was better between both of them
Arjuna was the far superior warrior than Karna because he easily crushed Karna in Virat war and Draupadi syamwara
Karna failed to string the bow in Draupadi and Arjuna easily strung same bow in same syamwara.
Karna could defeat Arjuna only in dice game with the help of Shakuni.
Sachin I agree with you. Whats your opinion on Vibhishina. Do you think he was crusader for justice. Below lines from Valmiki ramayana indicate him for rajya
“These two lions among men, on whom depended the positon aspired by me, are lying insensible, waiting for dissolution of the body.”
Verse Locator
जीवन्न् अद्य विपन्नो अस्मि नष्ट राज्य मनो रथः |
प्राप्त प्रतिज्नश् च रिपुह् सकामो रावणह् कृतः || ६-५०-१९
19. naSTaraajyamanorathaH = deprived of the hope of becoming king; adya = now; asmi = I am; vipannaH = dead; jiivannapi = even if survinving; ripuH = (while) my rival; raavaNaH = Ravana; praapta pratijJNaH = sees his vow fulfilled; kR^itaH = and gets; sakaamaashcha = his desires realised.
“Deprived of the hope now of becoming a king, I am as one dead, eventhough surviving; while my rival Ravana sees his vow fulfilled and gets his desires realised.” we see him boo hooing for kingship
Nope, Vibhishan was not a crusader for justice….. Firstly i have not read the Ramayan, but seeing the Ramanand Sagar’s Ramayan, & applying the practical logic on it, my neutral point of view is that Vibhishan was a Cheater & a traitor….. He cheated his own brother-Raavan & helped an outsider king-Ram to dethrone Raavan & get the throne of Lanka…..!! Same was the case with Sugreev(a Traitor as well)……
I dont find any fault in the way Raavan ruled Lanka…. he was a good king…. Raavan was potrayed as a bad king only because winners write the history…..
I may have mentioned previously as well, that Ram’s 14 year exile was just an excuse to hide their HIDDEN motive of capturing southern India (Just like Arjun’s 14 year exile had hidden motive) … And when Raavan sensed this HIDDEN motive of Ram, he kidnapped Sita only to have an advantage in stopping this mission of Ram…..
Ram smartly used the strategy of Divide & Rule (Just like English people used to conquer India) to capture southern kings e.g. using Sugreev against Baali, Vibhishan against Raavan…etc.. Hence i consider VibhishanSugreev as a traitors who cheated their own Motherland & helped an Aryan king-Ram defeat the Asuras…..
Sachin. A very intelligent analysis. Vibhishan was a traitor no doubt. Ditto for Sugriva. Even if he felt that Vali was dead he could have crowned Angada on the throne. When Vali came back and if he saw his own son on the throne his anger would have melted immidiatly and he would believed sugrivas sob story. But Sugriva had lalach for Rajya hence when Vali saw sugriva all comfortable on his throne friction was bound to happen.
Your statement-“How important was a Guru those days. Because Ghatotkacha was a great warrior. He lived a jungle life without any access to any high tech Guru Like Drona Parshurama. Babhruvahana another great warrior in MB was also wasn’t trained by Drona or Parshurama.”
My ans- Firstly, i would like to correct your observation…. Just because there is no mention of Ghatotkach’s Guru, so it doesnt mean that Ghatotkacha never had any Guru…. And going by the trends during MB, every royal family had their own special war teacher appointed for their Children….. And Ghatotkacha was a southern king(after King Hidimb was killed by Bhima)… Hence Ghatotkacha must have received war training from his guru…. And the art of Night fighting/Jungle fighting was best in Asuras/Gandharvas(which even Aryan Gurus lacked)….. The 14th Night war & gandharva wars are the proof…..
Similarly, Just because there is no mention of Babhruvahan’s Guru, so it doesnt mean that Babhruvahan never had any Guru…. Secondly, i dont consider Babhruvahan as a Great warrior… The Arjun-Babhruvahan father-son dual was a friendly dual which was blown out of proportion with supernatural interpolations, hence this dual should not be considered for judging Babhruvahan’s warrior capabilities…..
Now to answer your question, Yes the importance of a Guru was very much significant during MB times…. Because high tech Gurus Like Drona Parshurama prepared high tech student warriors & gave them high tech weapons…. And this combination of high tech warriors + high tech weapons changed the fate of Kingdoms of India during Mb times….. And there is obvious example of Pandavas (high tech warriors with high tech weapons) who changed the Geography of kingdoms of India simply with their warrior+weapon skills….. examples: Gurudakshina war, MB war, Rajsuya war etc….. Point to note here is that Pandavas never relied upon Large army or Money to achieve victories…..
That is why high tech Gurus were in very much in Demand during Mb times…..
Sachin. I agree with your statement. Ie just because guru isnt mentioned that doesnt mean he never had a guru. my query was that did that guru which ghatotkacha had did he give him some hi tech weapons training as there is record of hi tech weapons used by ghatotkacha. Your point on bhabruvahan is very well made. I had agreed with you on previous ocassions as well. this duel cant be taken into evaluation.
Your statement-“my query was that did that guru which ghatotkacha had did he give him some hi tech weapons training as there is record of hi tech weapons used by ghatotkacha.”
My ans- As i already said that the art of Night fighting/Jungle fighting was best in Asuras/Gandharvas(which even Aryan Gurus lacked)…. means that the Asura Gurus (Of ghatotkacha) had better knowledge than that of Aryan Gurus(Drona/Parshuram etc), hence Gurus of ghatotkacha must have given him hi tech weapons which were specialised to produce greater damage when used at night…… Hence Asuras were more powerful at night…..
Dear Sanjay
I humbly apologize to contradict you yet again. Your statement
58. A/C to BORI, the statement where Sanjaya in section-50 narrated about Bhima making Karna to lose his sense, is an interpolation. Sorry but BORI does mention Bhima making Karna loose sense in Karna parva. A friend of mine well versed in BORI confirmed that.
I have a small doubt. How important was a Guru those days. Because Ghatotkacha was a great warrior. He lived a jungle life without any access to any high tech Guru Like Drona Parshurama. Babhruvahana another great warrior in MB was also wasn’t trained by Drona or Parshurama.
I stand corrected. Mauravis name shows in Skanda Puraan. Below is info about Jaimin from internet.
Lakshmisa (or Lakshmisha, Kannada: ಲಕ್ಷ್ಮೀಶ) was a noted Kannada language Brahmin writer who lived during the mid–16th or late–17th century period. His most important writing, Jaimini Bharata is a version of the Hindu epic Mahabharata. The writing focuses on the events following the battle of Indraprastha between the Pandavas and Kauravas, using the Ashvamedha (“horse sacrifice”) conducted by Yudhishthira as the topic of the epic narrative. The writing is in the shatpadi metre (hexa-metre, 6 line verse) and was inspired by the Sanskrit original written by sage Jaimini
Well… going by the trends during MB, it is clear that having Sons was more important than having daughters for most of the kingdoms of India… because only sons inherited the throne of the king & not daughters….. hence each time a king gets married, it was the top most priority for him to provide a Heir to the throne to the public i.e. a SON… because without a heir to the throne, there was fear of anarchy after King’s sudden death(due to any reason)…. This is the reason for Kunti favouring a son (although practically thinking, having a son or a daughter is not on a mother’s hand, but it is a nature’s call)…..
But still, there were few exceptions to this rule dring MB times as well….. Chitranganda(wife of Arjun) was a trained warrior, & as per the trend of Manipur even the daughters inherited the throne of the king…. and after marriage, the married daughters stayed at their father kingdom only….
And regarding the training of daughters, there are many such examples during MB as well.. e.g. Chitranganda(wife of Arjun), Satyabhama(wife of Krishna), hidimba, Maulvii(Ghatotkach’s wife) etc all were trained female warriors…
During Ramayan times, Kaikeyii(Dashrat’s wife), Shruphnakaha etc were also trained warrior….
Mr. Sachin. A good reply. Except the character mauravi appears in mahabharata katha of B.R. chopra. This was on the lines of jaimini bharata which was written by some 11th century scholar. I will try to revert to with more details. However its not in mahabharata or any puraan written by Vyasa or a sage who existed in the mb era.
Dear friends going purely by MB Kunti had a mantra. to get offspring from dev. Then why all the time she wanted a son NOT a daughter. MB speaks of sons NOT daughters. Can anyone quote some daughters of maharathis. Why didn’t these maharathis have the attitude of Mahavir Singh Phogat and train daughters.
Regarding the Female warriors…. we have a list of “Devis” to chose from…. Starting from Durga/Kaali(forms of Parvati), Chamunda, Amba etc…… I would give the no. 1 rank to Durga(Parvati) because Durga killed Mahisasur (who had defeated the combined strength of Shiv/Vishnu/brahma) ….
I would rate Lankini as no 1 female warrior. Tadaka was more like a bandit queen. surpanakha was more into cat fights. Lankini was trained warrior assigned to protect Lanka
Readers. has any one seen the movie Dangal. by her own admission Geeta Phogat on rarest of rare occasions used to defeat the boys. but on most occasions boys defeated her. Not that she defeated all the boy that none of them dared to challenge her as the song aisi dhakad hai portrays.( I got this info by seeing her own interview on you tube ) I raised this point because female warriors haven’t been discussed in this blog. MB boasts of only shikhandi where Ramayana talks about Tadaka soorpnakha lankini as well.
Your statement-“Drona was kripas jeejaji and ashwtthamas father. His death may have left some bad vibes with kripa ashwatthama combo. But kritverma still hanging around with these guys is confusing. He could have told them bhai war khatam mera kaam khatam – contract over.”
My ans- Well yes, it was illogical on the part of kritverma to continue the fight even after the MB war over….. The only possible reason which i can think off is that kritverma may have felt the insult of losing the MB war(which is quiet obivious for a Kshatriya).. Hence he may have thought to eliminate Pandavas(by hook or krook/night attack), so that his defeat could have been nullified by killing Pandavas….. hence he also joined the night attack….
Did Bhima actually took the blood of Dusshashan for Draupadi’s hairs ??
Ans: No…. Bhima taking the blood of Dusshashan to Draupadi & Draupadi washing her hair with Dusshashan’s blood is NOT MENTIONED IN MB….
Because after killing Dusshashan, Bhima drank his blood(for his vow) & after this 10 Kuru brothers attacked Bhima & Bhima continued his fighting with them….
did draupadi take pledge I will keep my hair untied till I wash it with dushasana blood. That too IMHO is interpolation. to my knowledge she didn’t take any pledge. Nor she said andhe ka putr andha when duryodhana took a splash. as per KMG Vyasa she wasn’t even there when this incident took place. pandavas may have laughed.
Surprise….!! We have a mutual agreement on a point with Niraj…..!!
And YES draupadi did not take the pledge that she will keep her hair untied till she wash it with dushasana blood. …. Nor she said andhe ka putr andha when duryodhana took a splash, as per KMG Vyasa she wasn’t even there when this incident took place… Only Bhima laughed at that time….
bheeshmas pratigya that he will serve hastinapura and as per b.r. chopras serial main vartaman hastinapur naresh mein apne pita ki chavi ko dekhoonga is also an interpolation. There was no pratigya factor in bheeshma serving hastinapur, fighting for kurus and also his action or rather inaction in helping draupadi. Dronas position can be sympathised though. Dhritharashtra had given him employment when his own friend drupad had given him the boot. So the obligation factor to Dhritharashtra and his sons can be in his mind.
Surprise again…!! Is it Niraj who is talking or someone else….??!!
I wonder why u never supported me previously when i raised this same point of Bhishma’s personal biasedness towards kurus & none of his vow obliged him to support Kurus in MB war…. It was Bhishma’s personal choice to fight against Pandavas…..
Yes Mr. Sachin that’s me only. my point of biggest confusion in MB is Kritverma. This guy really gets the begaani shaadi main Abdullah deewana award. After the war Kripa and ashwatthama humping around for vendetta is also understandable. Drona was kripas jeejaji and ashwtthamas father. His death may have left some bad vibes with kripa ashwatthama combo. But kritverma still hanging around with these guys is confusing. He could have told them bhai war khatam mera kaam khatam – contract over.
Karna vs Arjuna – LIST OF ADHARMAS DONE BY PANDAVA
Above facebook post has KMG GENUINE PASSAGES showing the bad deeds of pandavas. This is a nice CID Inspector Daya level jhapad on those who think pandav were dharma oriented. I have purposely written KMG genuine passages in bold for those who are suffering from partial blindness and later on claim he is quoting from faceboook ha ha ha hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Mere is harkat se kisi ke dil ko agar thes pahunchi hai to yeh harkat maine jaan boojh ke ki hai
ha ha ha ha ha ha…. Poor Niraj…. Defeated & frustrated… because he has no KMG passages to support his fake claims… hence showing his frustrations by crying “Facebook…Facebook(as if Mark Zukerberg had greater Knowledge then VYas or KMG)”…. ha ha ha ha ha ha.. Who cares what a losing NZ player says…. ha ha ha ha ha ha….. Facebook…. ha ha ha ha ha ha….
As expected worthless post expected reply expected accusation ie Niraj quotes face book for mb. whereas my post clearly says KMG passages quoted by facebook. and expected laughter followed by a fake claim of victory when he himself is defeated and frustrated. Genuinely defeated debater Sachin a billion dreams – all unfulfilled continues on this blog so does my wait of a genuine debater. whats with this blog I am wondering ? have debators stopped coming here? Or are afraid that Sachin will bore them with his worthless passages and accusations. blog history before Sachin was quite impressive. Debaters like smartboy gandharva visiting here regularly. smartboy stopped after sachin. and now so has Sanjay. Looks like a long wait for me here for the genuine debator.
ha ha ha ha … Niraj wants a “Genuine Debater”…!! This is just like, after losing the World cup to Australia, the NZ players says that he has not lost & he wants a “Genuine Team” like Bangaldesh to play the WC final again…..!! ha ha ha ha… Who cares what a lost NZ player says…. And “facebook”…. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha h
its Australia jis ki talash thi mujhe.. Niraj the indian has beaten sachin the Bangladeshi/Ziimbabwe black and blue ki aur peetne ko kuch raha nahee gaya. your laughter on facebook rant was expected. keep trying Bangladeshi/Zimbabwe cricketer. This Indian is not interested in beating a team already beaten.
Below list is from sachin a billion dreams.(all unfulfilled ) its not facebook its facebook which quotes genuine kmg passages. your laughter and false accusation was already expected My October debates clearly prove sachin defeated. Additions to my recommendation
Karna – ..ATI-MAHARATHI SURYAPUTRA KARNA
Karna vs Arjuna – … FAKE DEFEAT OF KARNA ON 14TH … – Facebook
Karna vs Arjuna – Exposing Arjuna fans – once again:-… | Facebook
Karna vs Arjuna – DEFEATS OF MONSTER BHIMA BY … – Facebook
Karna vs Arjuna – EXPOSING THE TRUTH OF RAJSUYA YAGYA …
Karna vs Arjuna – EXPOSING ONE DAY WARRIOR – SATYAKI …
Karna vs Arjuna – … MISCONCEPTION ABOUT BOON OF… | Facebook
Time has come to end chapter of great Abhimanyu forever. .
Karna vs Arjuna – MISCONCEPTION – Karna was responsible …for abhimanyus deaths
Karna vs Arjuna – KARNA AND THE LAKSHAGRIHA CONSPIRACY
…
All documented evidence with genuine KMG passages and Mr. Sachins own logics already quoted by me. Karna > Arjuna Karna > Bhima. As mentioned earlier I will debate with genuine debators not genuinely defeated debators. Bhima never defeated Karna in his carreer he got his life spared on battle day 14 and was booted away in all multiple attacks well supported by KMG passages and sachins logic as bhimas name was in those passages mentioned in Karna – ..ATI-MAHARATHI SURYAPUTRA KARNA
Your statement-“passages of group attacks already given on umpteen occasion. No Mr. foreman ali not in the mood for rematch. readers who want see the passages can search within this blog or if they have difficult go to Karna – ..ATI-MAHARATHI SURYAPUTRA KARNA …”
My ans- ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha… Niraj himself ridiculed his own post by posting my response in advance as well….. ha ha ha ha ha ha…. And FACEBOOK….??? SERIOUSLY ???!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha….
Now, since Niraj u have failed to give the exact KMG lines which says that Bhima backed away from Karna (in group attack)… so ur claim stands PUNCTURED (as ever) …. ha ha ha ha ha … I really feel pity for your Pathetic situation in a debate with me…. FACEBOOK… !! ha ha ha ha ha…..
Your statement-“No Mr. foreman ali not in the mood for rematch.”
My ans- ha ha ha ha ha ha… Who is asking for a rematch with the NZ player…?? Because Australia(i.e. me) has already won the World cup, but the poor NZ player is still crying that he won the WC, hence Australia is simply asking(& laughing):- WHEN did this happen ????? ha ha ha ha ha ha…..
And about your post with FACEBOOK references,… i have only one respone to it –> ha ha ha ha ha ha ha….
Sachin are you partially blind. I had made it cleary its facebook which has SECTIONS of KMG passages. You wanted rematch at true meaning of gar not me.
Readers I recommend to visit these posts on facebook which has relevant KMG passages
Karna – ..ATI-MAHARATHI SURYAPUTRA KARNA as mentioned earlier and they have never met sachin but support sachins logic completely readers who doubted earlier have will see bhimas name and supported by sachins own logic -“ which is as follows “This is just like after a cricket match, the commentator says that Team India lost to Australia…. so now Sanjay is challenging me to show that where is it mentioned that Dhoni lost the match ?? bhimas name will be seen in those attacks.
Karna vs Arjuna – … FAKE DEFEAT OF KARNA ON 14TH … – Facebook
Relevant proof given karna was not defeated by bhima with passages. Again supporting Sachin logic of what actually happened ie in tune with both sachin and KMG
Karna vs Arjuna – Exposing Arjuna fans – once again:-… | Facebook
KMG Passages exposing fakes defeats of Karna again in tune with Sachins logic what actually happened ie in tune with both Sachin and KMG
Karna vs Arjuna – DEFEATS OF MONSTER BHIMA BY … – Facebook
There are some Karna haters who keep harping karna lost here karna lost there gandhavaras gurudakshina battle to drupad blah blah this post has KMG passages of how bhima lost to just about every tom,dick harry charlie Chaplin Mr. Bean, dada kondke , Mac mohan AK. Hangal, of mahabharata.
Above all info is more than sufficient to provide KMG passages to genuine MB enthusiast. I don’t think I have to quote further. My stand is same as I mentioned no debating with sachin. Yes if some genuine debater comes shows some integrity then I will debate with him. I may shoot in shoot out and if I see Sachin insulting me I will retaliate accordingly
Niraj, is still only giving LOGICS & his PERSONAL OPINION (instead of KMG lines) to prove his point….. who cares…
Your statement-“so stop crying on KMG on your preaching what actuall happened karna undefeated by bhima on battle 14”
My ans- Since u again raised this LOST debate of yours… & you r only giving your PERSONAL OPINION here, so i am obliged to ask you- PROVE IT FROM KMG OR DONT TALK IN AIR…..
Your statement-“on your logic bhima beating by karna in severial battalion attacks by Karna again your logic which is as follows “This is just like after a cricket match, the commentator says that Team India lost to Australia…. so now Sanjay is challenging me to show that where is it mentioned that Dhoni lost the match ?? so I have made both my points based on your logic and preaching supporting.”
My ans- Very funny…. You r still giving LOGICS & PERSONAL OPINIONS only…..
The comparison is Invalid….. Karna’s intention to Burn Draupadi was a Debatable point, because there is no clear cut mention of Karna himself saying that he wants to burn Draupdi, hence Sanjay was not accepting this point….. But here, the point in favour of my debate was that Karna actually attacked Draupadi/Drupad/Brahmins & later got defeated by Arjun(actual event mentioned in KMG)…. But there is no such lines mentioning Bhima’s name in Backing off or running away from Karna during severial battalion attack…. So your counter-logic point does not stand here… If u have passages to show that Bhima actually backed-off from an ACTIVE FIGHT against Karna, then show me those KMG LINES, otherwise who cares….
passages of group attacks already given on umpteen occasion. No Mr. foreman ali not in the mood for rematch. readers who want see the passages can search within this blog or if they have difficult go to Karna – ..ATI-MAHARATHI SURYAPUTRA KARNA … – Facebook. Please don’t be deceived by Sachin next accusation on me which I can predict will be as follows “so now Niraj is advocating facebook instead of KMG ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha . what a pathetic debator. Arre bhai facebook source thodi ho sakta hai. Genuine readers please be informed that this facebook quotes genuine passages from KMG Vyasas and readers who doubted earlier have will see bhimas name and supported by sachins own logic -“ which is as follows “This is just like after a cricket match, the commentator says that Team India lost to Australia…. so now Sanjay is challenging me to show that where is it mentioned that Dhoni lost the match ?? bhimas name will be seen in those attacks. This isn’t about Sachin any longer. its about Karna fans who may think karna was inferior glorified on by t.v. serials. on this facebook they will see umpteen action scenes. aur galat faimeen door ho jayegi.
Ha..ha..ha… Niraj, its so funny to see u in such pathetic state of debating…. Bhima’s 4 victories over Karna on day 14 has been proved on umpteen times in this blog ON THE BASIS OF KMG …. And so when u found out that you cannot win this debate ON THE BASIS OF KMG, so now u r giving references of other bloggers(like Mr Invincible)(instead of KMG !!) to prove ur point, as if Mr Invincible is bigger than KMG…. Ha..ha..ha…
Bhima’s 4 victories over Karna on day 14 stays as true as ever…..
And stop crying & complaining to Dhruv again & again, because Dhruv is a smart guy, he very well knows who started the foul languages in this blog(& that’s you Niraj)….. So your Dirty techniques wont work now…..
kmg is author he has written the book we can debate with some external un biased seeing our debate decided that you have lost pathetically KMG didn’t kiss your rosy cheeks and appoint you as his spoke person. And you are dancing on KMGs name ha ha ha joke of the millennium. You have pooh poohed KMG all along you were the one who preached don’t be deceived by what is written in KMG see what actually has a happened in the event. so stop crying on KMG on your preaching what actuall happened karna undefeated by bhima on battle 14 and on your logic bhima beating by karna in severial battalion attacks by Karna again your logic which is as follows “This is just like after a cricket match, the commentator says that Team India lost to Australia…. so now Sanjay is challenging me to show that where is it mentioned that Dhoni lost the match ?? so I have made both my points based on your logic and preaching supporting. So its not your debating which is pathetic its your character which is pathetic. that you couldn’t practice what your preached. I am not complaining I have given you warning. I can put you in your place on all levels be it debating or taming a brat like you
Sachin the very fact you wanted rematch in itself is proof that you lost. I don’t want to call your top 15 list as rubbish because rubbish also has some value. Proof of your double standards in debating given by my and any person can see how you were defeated. One person who came in this blog as pandava friendly ending up agreeing with me that’s Mr Invincible who saw my debates and your defeat and said as follows
Mr. Invincible says:
October 10, 2016 at 12:20 pm
Rate This
@niraj
Your debate of bhima-karna battle of 14th day made me rethink. Earlier I was believing that karna was repeatedly defeated by bhima. But now my understanding is that although karna had to leave the active battle, he did so by himself. I mean bhima could not get karna within his control. But when karna gained upper hand at last, bhima was trapped. He cannot escape by himself. That’s why Arjuna had to interfere. When karna lost his weapons and chariot, he did not yield to bhima but quickly escaped and returned with fresh equipment. But when bhima lost his equipment, he could not do the same. Instead he proposed wrestling to bring karna to a level playing field. In the absence of external help from arjun, situation is in karna’s favour here.( ha ha ha comedy to yeh hai that sachin was dancing with joy when Mr. Invincible had arrived in this blog. We ended up celebrating.
Mr. Sachin ise kehte hain integrity. Debating ethics. I didn’t quote sanjay supporting me because he is karna fan. My stand is clear you have already been defeated and any debator with integrity (like Mr. Invincible can see your defeat) Mr. Dhruv reading here please be informed after you had warned both me and sachin you made a blog on us sad to see latest developments I had stopped insulting language sachin continued do so. Even after you stopped the blog and restarted it its sachin who used insulting language on me after our interaction on baka raptors blog. Not only he is unashamed he has actually criticised you of closing the blog as if you the boss of the blog owes him some explanation. All of sachins anti karna points have been refuted his status as a person with double standards have been proven by me. He will keep using pharases saying personal opinion hence invalid make false claims etc etc. Sorry george foreman. Mohammad ali has defeated you and no rematch. Some ethical debator comes up with some new points I will see. Sachin If your use insulting language I will retaliate accordingly and if dhruv closes down blog then you cant even go to baka raptor begging for a rematch because voh blog to band ho gaya.
Ha..ha..ha… Niraj, be thankful to Dhruv that he closed down this blog for some time in between, otherwise u had left no corner to hide your face after you got humiliated & defeated in the discussion with me…..
U also ran away from Baka-Raptor blog…. Ha..ha..ha… And your top 15 list is as rubbish & funny as ever… So Who cares….. Ha..ha..ha…
above list is based on dvanda yudha one to one warrior basis. any debater who is honest and has integrity to accept evidence ( except Sachin whom I have beaten on umpteen occasions ) is most welcome to debate with me.
Mr. Dhruv/Readers I wont use insulting language unless Mr. Sachin provokes me however one imp note on him. Please see his double standards
draupadi swayamvara some monarchs were mentioned attacking draupadi Karna name not mentioned still Sachin considered Karna tried to kill draupadi. Below is a section of his interaction with mr. Sanjay another blogger has defeated sachin on umpteen ocassion.
1. Sachin
March 31, 2014 at 3:25 am
Dear Sanjay,
Regarding your questions:
My ans- Very funny again…. This is just like after a cricket match, the commentator says that Team India lost to Australia…. so now Sanjay is challenging me to show that where is it mentioned that Dhoni lost the match ?? Similarly, Sanjay is asking me to show the lines of KMG where Karna says to burn draupadi, while it is clearly mentioned that all Monarchs(which included Karna) planned to kill Drupad & burn Drauadi alive……
Dear Dhruv But when I showed battle scenes all warriors including bhima attacking Karna and all of them turning back. Sachin insist bhima was not in those warriors who were repelled by Karna where as in those passages bhimas name WAS MENTIONED and on monarchs attacking Karnas name NOT mentioned.. Not that it did him any good he kept loosing consistently to me. My stand to you is clear. Mohammed ali is not giving foreman a rematch. Some ethical debator comes I will thing about it. No use defeating him again and again.
since Mr. sachin has lost all his debates with me and I have refused to give him rematch. this list can be read from back words warrior 15th first warrior 14th second and warrior 13th third greatest so on so forth. mb fans can read my posts with him refuring all his claims and decide themselves who won.
Since every blogger in this blog failed to refute my top 15 list & since my last debator-Mr Niraj has lost all of his arguements with me, so the all time top 15 list of Greatest Warrior stays as it is:
Hi Sanjay welcome back. But sorry I beg to differ. We just cant look at results only. Pros and cons to be evaluated. Arjuna was a man known to be soft on his relatives he knew babhruvahana was his son so he wasn’t firing his most powerful divyastras . so hence these factors count. Babhruvahana vs arjuna cant be taken into arjuna evaluation. I may be a karna fan but cant play double standards.
As predicted George foreman wanting a rematch with mohammad ali. Sachin se entry nahi mili. so
Sachin5555555. Baka raptor had to close down his blog because I declined from giving Sachin a rematch. Even after dhruvs warning Sachin had not refrained from abusive language and personal insults.
Dear Sanjay As per KMG mahabharata, Karna had nine sons (though 7-8 sons seems to be interpolated to overglorify pandava warriors).
Vishnu puraan does mentions vrishasena as son of Karna but does not mention him killed. I believe Skanda puraan shows a son of Karna doing annadaan on his behalf after Karna died ( I will verify this later ) Logic is simple. You cant pull down Amitabh bachchan you will target Abhishek Bacchan as he is not as famous as successful as his father. Jeetendra is too much of a himmatwala so try pulling down Tushar Kapoor. These fake Abhishek Bacchans and Tushar Kapoors were created for this reason. With Bheeshma drona the pandavas had excuses that one is my grandsire other a guru so I was not aggressive enough against them hence they were not killed cleanly by me. But with Karna this didn’t work as the fact the was their elder brother was told to them later. Hence these fake sons ie Tushar Kapoors and Abhishek Bacchans were created.
Original –
1. Vrishasena (may be interpolated)
2. Vrishaketu
Interpolated –
3. Chitrasena
4. Satyasena
5. Sushena
6. Shatrunjaya
7. Dvipata
8. Banasena
9. Prasena
Interpolated death of Sushena :
A) Uttamauja slew Sushena on 17th day of war
The heroic Uttamauja, putting forth his strength struck the son of Karna and cut off his head which fell down on the earth, filling the earth and the welkin with a loud noise.
B) Nakula slew Sushena on 18th day of war –
Nakula sped it with great force at Karna’s son in that battle. With that arrow, O best of kings, the son of Pandu cut off from Sushena’s trunk the latter’s head in the very sight of all the troops
Uttamauja had killed Sushena on 17th day and Nakula slew same Sushena on next day. LOL :v How is it possible to kill same person twice..?? 😛 It proves that his death is an interpolation. As per original mahabharat, Karna had only two sons – Vrishasen and Vrishaketu. Following are the reasons]
– Only vrishasen has been described during entire epic. When Bhishma had recited Ratha-maharatha, he only mentioned vrishasen as the son of Karna. Vrishaketu was 14 yrs old just kid hence he didn’t participate in war. But Bhishma didn’t mention other 7 sons of Karna. It proves that other 7 sons are interpolated
– During Aashramvastika parv, souls of only two sons of Karna arose from Bhagirathi river – Vrishasen and his younger brother (Vrishaketu who was slain by vabruvahan in ashwamedha parv). So Karna had only two sons
Passage from KMG –
There were the son of Jarasandha, and Bhagadatta, and Jalasandha of great energy, and Bhurisravas, and Sala, and Salya, and VRISHASENA with his YOUNGER BROTHER.
They properly burned upon those fires that blazed forth with libations of clarified butter in torrents over them, the bodies of Duryodhana and his hundred brothers, of Shalya, and king Bhurishrava; of Karna and his son of great wrath
Karna The Great 
Niraj & other bloggers,
Has anybody read the original Valmeeki Ramayana ?? If yes, then can anybody tell me how many kings of Ragukul lineage who ruled Ayodhya has been mentioned before Ram & after Ram ..??
LikeLike
Dear Sachin, Valmiki Ramayana doesnt mention descendants of Rama. Some Sanskrit scholars are challanging uttar kanda. Srimad bhagwatha mentions brihadbala a descendant of Rama killed by abhimanyu This brihadbala being killed by abhimanyu is mentioned in kmg BUT BRIHADBALA IN KMG IS NOT MENTIONED AS RAMAS DESCENDANT.
LikeLike
Thanks for the info Niraj.
I had also read online about “brihadbala a descendant of Rama killed by abhimanyu”, but is this info from Srimad bhagwatha or Vishnu Puraan ??
Further, Vishnu Puraan gives a list of 145 kings in the Raghukul(or Ikshvaku Dynasty of Surya Vamsam)(Ram being the 81st king)…!! What do u say about Vishnu Puraan ??
Also, Kalidas’ Raghuvamsham says that there were 24 Kings after Ram… How did Kalidas knew about Raghukul because Kalidas wrote his book in 500 AD…!!
Your thoughts ..?
LikeLike
Dear Sachin. I am sorry I have not read Vishnu puraan. But Srimad bhagwatha I have some vague idea. Sukadeva tells parikshit that brihadbala descendant of Rama was killed by your father. I am little curious about your surprise on kalidasa knowing raghukul in 500 AD as Rama existed before him. So kalidasa having some access to lineage of Rama shouldnt be surprising. Although I dont consider Kalidasa as a final authority. But yes since he existed in such earlier times he could have had access to some authentic material
LikeLike
Hello friends,
Long time…
I just came across an interesting point about Mahabharat, so i wanted to share with u all:-
Discovery of under water Dwarka & the timing of Mahabharat war:
It is amusing to note that the under water submerged city of Dwarka of lord Krishna has been discovered by the Marine Archaeological Unit (MAU) of the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) under the supervision of Dr S. R. Rao between 1983 and 1990.
Dr S.R.Rao’s team came across discoveries that cemented the existence of a submerged Dwarka city of lord Krishna.
It was concluded that Dwarka submerged under sea in 1500 BC.
Dr S.R.Rao submitted a proposal to the Ministry of Culture in January 2000, that aimed at preserving the ‘underwater cultural heritage of India Dwarka’ and also promoting it as a pilgrimage-tourism center. But the proposal was not taken up by the Ministry of Culture..!!
Now, the points which baffles me are:
– Foreign countries do not consider India’s ancient History of Ramayan/Mahabharat as real, because we cannot give them any proof of them
– But the Discovery of under water Dwarka clearly proves the existence of Krishna & the History of Mahabharat
– Further it also proves the timing of Mahabharat which happened around 1500 BC, 36 years before Dwarka submerged under sea
– Now, even after getting this significant Discovery of under water Dwarika, the Govt of India still hasnt tried to preserve this ‘underwater cultural heritage of India-Dwarka’ and has not been promoting it as a pilgrimage-tourism center.
– Even though under-water Dwarka can be the greatest Pilgrimage for Indians, because it was the city of Lord Krishna, still the Govt of India is turning a blind-eye towards it…!! Strange….!!
——————————-
The only reason for this apathy of Govt of India towards under-water Dwarka could be that we Indians claim that our ancient History of Ramayan/Mahabharat is the oldest in the world i.e. around 9000 to 10000 BC old, but the Discovery of under water Dwarika clearly proves that Ramayan/Mahabharat was not that much old but they happened around 2000-1500 BC, which makes civilization of ancient India younger to Mesopotamia (7000 BC). This is just like lying to oneself.
Even if India’s ancient history(2000 BC) is younger to Mesopotamia (7000 BC), still it doesnt make our ancient history as less valuable. Govt of India should explore the under-water Dwarka in detail because we Indians deserve to know the REAL truth about our ancient history & its time period. Further, Govt of India should preserve this ‘underwater cultural heritage of India-Dwarka’ and promote it as a pilgrimage-tourism center.
LikeLike
Welcome back Sachin. Just one doubt. Based on archeological evidence which happened first Ramayana or Mahabharata ?
LikeLike
Wow… Hi Niraj… Didnt expect to get so quick response from you… Nice to see you in this blog….
Based on archeological evidence, Ramayana happened first… In Iraq, a stone wall sculpture (mural) of Ram was found dated 2000 BC… while MB happened in 1500 BC
Also, In Vyas MB, there is mention of Ramayan stories in bits & pieces, which also proves the same…
LikeLike
Dear Sachin I am also of the opinion that Ramayana must have happened earlier. In mb we see some ramayana characters mentioned and stories told. But some fb friends of mine came with following points. They claim there are two ways of looking at this question One from believing in scriptures unquestioningly. The second is a scientific approach, where evidence outside the srciptures or epics, and social customs, topography and other archaelogical evidence is taken into account.Ramayana and MahaBharata have totally differnt Social Customs and topography in them.Let me first deal with the evidence of Geography. Mahabharata, deals with Kings and lands which were all above Vindhya Range. While Gandhara is mentioned, there are no mentions of any South India topography. MahaBharata also mentions that Krishna drove his chariot from Indraprasth(DELHI) to Dwarka, along the banks of **Saraswati**, which means, in the times of Mhabharata, Saraswati was ALIVE!!! Ramayana, the geography extends to Maharashtra, South India and SriLanka.There is no mention of Saraswati, only of Sarayu. In (http://man.In) Mahabharata, the Kingdom could be divided among brothers. But in Ramayana , only the eldest could inherit the Kingdom. Social customs take a long time to evolve and be codified. NIYOGA is not acceptable today as was the case during Ramayana. Rama refuses to accept the offsprings still in the womb of Seeta, while in Kuru dynasty, everyone accepts the Offspring as their own, even when they are derived from different origins Geography enlarges when you actually wander around.From the above evidences, Ramayana was later. Can you elobarate on this stone wall in Iraq, ?
LikeLike
Niraj,
As u know, i am the guy who believes in facts & not assumptions… If someone gives me evidences which prove that Ramayan was later than MB than i will be more than happy to accept it because for me this topic is not for debate or to glorify my knowledge/ego but to actually find out the truth about Ramayan/MB….
Regarding your point of differences in “Social customs” of Ramayan & MB, this point is very shallow & not concrete…… E.g. 30 years from today (i.e. in 1990’s AD), if a young girl was seen wearing a Jeans or roaming around with her boyfriend then it was considered as obscene but today nobody even cares….. so u can see just 30 years can change the standards of “Social customs” … and the difference between Ramayan & MB was around 1000 years(debatable), so “Social customs” between these 2 eras cannot be compared to decide their timing….
U can google “iraq mural of Ram” to know more details about it….
I will give some more evidences later regarding the dates of MB & Ramayan….
LikeLike
Dear Sachin. Tks a lot.
LikeLike
Actually none BORI and Kmg are accurate. None had access to original Mahabharata :
BORI ;
To prevent misconception in the mind of the casual reader, it is best to state at
first what the constituted text is not.1
The editor is firmly convinced that the text presented in this edition is not anything like the autograph copy of the work of its
mythical author, Maharṣi Vyāsa. It is not, in any sense, a reconstruction of the
UrMahābhārata or of the UrBhārata , that ideal but impossible desideratum. It is also
not an exact replica of the poem recited by Vaiśampāyana before Janamejaya. It is
further wholly uncertain how close it approaches the text of the poem said to be recited
by the Sūta (or Sauti) before Saunaka and the other dwellers of the Naimiṣa forest.
Kmg :
cannot lay claim to infallibility. There are verses in the Mahabharata that are exceedingly difficult to construe. I have derived much aid from the great commentator Nilakantha. I know that Nilakantha’s authority is not incapable of being challenged. But when it is remembered that the interpretations given by Nilakantha came down to him from preceptors of olden days, one should think twice before rejecting Nilakantha as a guide.
About the readings I have adopted, I should say that as regards the first half of the work, I have generally adhered to the Bengal texts; as regards the latter half, to the printed Bombay edition. Sometimes individual sections, as occurring in the Bengal editions, differ widely, in respect of the order of the verses, from the corresponding ones in the Bombay edition. In such cases I have adhered to the Bengal texts, convinced that the sequence of ideas has been better preserved in the Bengal editions than the Bombay one.
LikeLike
Yes BORI and KMG are not pure authentic version but still these both version are more accurate version than any other versions
LikeLike
KMG is the most authentic version of Original Mahabharat, because it is an “as-it-is” translation of original Sanskrit text of MB…. while BORI is not an “as-it-is” translation of MB but it contains the interpretation of the author, hence non-authentic..
LikeLike
Is there any debator who is online here
Arjuna was indeed better than Karna because he crushed Karna multiple times
1) twice in Virat wars
2) defeated on 14th night
3) killed armed Karna
So we can safely conclude that who was better between both of them
LikeLike
Arjuna was the far superior warrior than Karna because he easily crushed Karna in Virat war and Draupadi syamwara
Karna failed to string the bow in Draupadi and Arjuna easily strung same bow in same syamwara.
Karna could defeat Arjuna only in dice game with the help of Shakuni.
LikeLike
Sachin I agree with you. Whats your opinion on Vibhishina. Do you think he was crusader for justice. Below lines from Valmiki ramayana indicate him for rajya
“These two lions among men, on whom depended the positon aspired by me, are lying insensible, waiting for dissolution of the body.”
Verse Locator
जीवन्न् अद्य विपन्नो अस्मि नष्ट राज्य मनो रथः |
प्राप्त प्रतिज्नश् च रिपुह् सकामो रावणह् कृतः || ६-५०-१९
19. naSTaraajyamanorathaH = deprived of the hope of becoming king; adya = now; asmi = I am; vipannaH = dead; jiivannapi = even if survinving; ripuH = (while) my rival; raavaNaH = Ravana; praapta pratijJNaH = sees his vow fulfilled; kR^itaH = and gets; sakaamaashcha = his desires realised.
“Deprived of the hope now of becoming a king, I am as one dead, eventhough surviving; while my rival Ravana sees his vow fulfilled and gets his desires realised.” we see him boo hooing for kingship
LikeLike
@ Niraj,
Nope, Vibhishan was not a crusader for justice….. Firstly i have not read the Ramayan, but seeing the Ramanand Sagar’s Ramayan, & applying the practical logic on it, my neutral point of view is that Vibhishan was a Cheater & a traitor….. He cheated his own brother-Raavan & helped an outsider king-Ram to dethrone Raavan & get the throne of Lanka…..!! Same was the case with Sugreev(a Traitor as well)……
I dont find any fault in the way Raavan ruled Lanka…. he was a good king…. Raavan was potrayed as a bad king only because winners write the history…..
I may have mentioned previously as well, that Ram’s 14 year exile was just an excuse to hide their HIDDEN motive of capturing southern India (Just like Arjun’s 14 year exile had hidden motive) … And when Raavan sensed this HIDDEN motive of Ram, he kidnapped Sita only to have an advantage in stopping this mission of Ram…..
Ram smartly used the strategy of Divide & Rule (Just like English people used to conquer India) to capture southern kings e.g. using Sugreev against Baali, Vibhishan against Raavan…etc.. Hence i consider VibhishanSugreev as a traitors who cheated their own Motherland & helped an Aryan king-Ram defeat the Asuras…..
LikeLike
Sachin. A very intelligent analysis. Vibhishan was a traitor no doubt. Ditto for Sugriva. Even if he felt that Vali was dead he could have crowned Angada on the throne. When Vali came back and if he saw his own son on the throne his anger would have melted immidiatly and he would believed sugrivas sob story. But Sugriva had lalach for Rajya hence when Vali saw sugriva all comfortable on his throne friction was bound to happen.
LikeLike
@ Niraj,
Your statement-“How important was a Guru those days. Because Ghatotkacha was a great warrior. He lived a jungle life without any access to any high tech Guru Like Drona Parshurama. Babhruvahana another great warrior in MB was also wasn’t trained by Drona or Parshurama.”
My ans- Firstly, i would like to correct your observation…. Just because there is no mention of Ghatotkach’s Guru, so it doesnt mean that Ghatotkacha never had any Guru…. And going by the trends during MB, every royal family had their own special war teacher appointed for their Children….. And Ghatotkacha was a southern king(after King Hidimb was killed by Bhima)… Hence Ghatotkacha must have received war training from his guru…. And the art of Night fighting/Jungle fighting was best in Asuras/Gandharvas(which even Aryan Gurus lacked)….. The 14th Night war & gandharva wars are the proof…..
Similarly, Just because there is no mention of Babhruvahan’s Guru, so it doesnt mean that Babhruvahan never had any Guru…. Secondly, i dont consider Babhruvahan as a Great warrior… The Arjun-Babhruvahan father-son dual was a friendly dual which was blown out of proportion with supernatural interpolations, hence this dual should not be considered for judging Babhruvahan’s warrior capabilities…..
Now to answer your question, Yes the importance of a Guru was very much significant during MB times…. Because high tech Gurus Like Drona Parshurama prepared high tech student warriors & gave them high tech weapons…. And this combination of high tech warriors + high tech weapons changed the fate of Kingdoms of India during Mb times….. And there is obvious example of Pandavas (high tech warriors with high tech weapons) who changed the Geography of kingdoms of India simply with their warrior+weapon skills….. examples: Gurudakshina war, MB war, Rajsuya war etc….. Point to note here is that Pandavas never relied upon Large army or Money to achieve victories…..
That is why high tech Gurus were in very much in Demand during Mb times…..
LikeLike
Sachin. I agree with your statement. Ie just because guru isnt mentioned that doesnt mean he never had a guru. my query was that did that guru which ghatotkacha had did he give him some hi tech weapons training as there is record of hi tech weapons used by ghatotkacha. Your point on bhabruvahan is very well made. I had agreed with you on previous ocassions as well. this duel cant be taken into evaluation.
LikeLike
@ Niraj,
Your statement-“my query was that did that guru which ghatotkacha had did he give him some hi tech weapons training as there is record of hi tech weapons used by ghatotkacha.”
My ans- As i already said that the art of Night fighting/Jungle fighting was best in Asuras/Gandharvas(which even Aryan Gurus lacked)…. means that the Asura Gurus (Of ghatotkacha) had better knowledge than that of Aryan Gurus(Drona/Parshuram etc), hence Gurus of ghatotkacha must have given him hi tech weapons which were specialised to produce greater damage when used at night…… Hence Asuras were more powerful at night…..
LikeLike
Dear Sanjay
I humbly apologize to contradict you yet again. Your statement
58. A/C to BORI, the statement where Sanjaya in section-50 narrated about Bhima making Karna to lose his sense, is an interpolation. Sorry but BORI does mention Bhima making Karna loose sense in Karna parva. A friend of mine well versed in BORI confirmed that.
LikeLike
Hi Niraj,
I do not have BORI so cannot react to your view. I only shared what was available on internet. You are most welcome to agree or refute that.
LikeLike
Dear Readers/ Mr. Dhruv and Sachin
I have a small doubt. How important was a Guru those days. Because Ghatotkacha was a great warrior. He lived a jungle life without any access to any high tech Guru Like Drona Parshurama. Babhruvahana another great warrior in MB was also wasn’t trained by Drona or Parshurama.
LikeLike
I stand corrected. Mauravis name shows in Skanda Puraan. Below is info about Jaimin from internet.
Lakshmisa (or Lakshmisha, Kannada: ಲಕ್ಷ್ಮೀಶ) was a noted Kannada language Brahmin writer who lived during the mid–16th or late–17th century period. His most important writing, Jaimini Bharata is a version of the Hindu epic Mahabharata. The writing focuses on the events following the battle of Indraprastha between the Pandavas and Kauravas, using the Ashvamedha (“horse sacrifice”) conducted by Yudhishthira as the topic of the epic narrative. The writing is in the shatpadi metre (hexa-metre, 6 line verse) and was inspired by the Sanskrit original written by sage Jaimini
LikeLike
Well… going by the trends during MB, it is clear that having Sons was more important than having daughters for most of the kingdoms of India… because only sons inherited the throne of the king & not daughters….. hence each time a king gets married, it was the top most priority for him to provide a Heir to the throne to the public i.e. a SON… because without a heir to the throne, there was fear of anarchy after King’s sudden death(due to any reason)…. This is the reason for Kunti favouring a son (although practically thinking, having a son or a daughter is not on a mother’s hand, but it is a nature’s call)…..
But still, there were few exceptions to this rule dring MB times as well….. Chitranganda(wife of Arjun) was a trained warrior, & as per the trend of Manipur even the daughters inherited the throne of the king…. and after marriage, the married daughters stayed at their father kingdom only….
And regarding the training of daughters, there are many such examples during MB as well.. e.g. Chitranganda(wife of Arjun), Satyabhama(wife of Krishna), hidimba, Maulvii(Ghatotkach’s wife) etc all were trained female warriors…
During Ramayan times, Kaikeyii(Dashrat’s wife), Shruphnakaha etc were also trained warrior….
LikeLike
Mr. Sachin. A good reply. Except the character mauravi appears in mahabharata katha of B.R. chopra. This was on the lines of jaimini bharata which was written by some 11th century scholar. I will try to revert to with more details. However its not in mahabharata or any puraan written by Vyasa or a sage who existed in the mb era.
LikeLike
Dear friends going purely by MB Kunti had a mantra. to get offspring from dev. Then why all the time she wanted a son NOT a daughter. MB speaks of sons NOT daughters. Can anyone quote some daughters of maharathis. Why didn’t these maharathis have the attitude of Mahavir Singh Phogat and train daughters.
LikeLike
Regarding the Female warriors…. we have a list of “Devis” to chose from…. Starting from Durga/Kaali(forms of Parvati), Chamunda, Amba etc…… I would give the no. 1 rank to Durga(Parvati) because Durga killed Mahisasur (who had defeated the combined strength of Shiv/Vishnu/brahma) ….
LikeLike
Yes. That’s a good list. Sorry I forgot that aspect.
LikeLike
I would rate Lankini as no 1 female warrior. Tadaka was more like a bandit queen. surpanakha was more into cat fights. Lankini was trained warrior assigned to protect Lanka
LikeLike
Readers. has any one seen the movie Dangal. by her own admission Geeta Phogat on rarest of rare occasions used to defeat the boys. but on most occasions boys defeated her. Not that she defeated all the boy that none of them dared to challenge her as the song aisi dhakad hai portrays.( I got this info by seeing her own interview on you tube ) I raised this point because female warriors haven’t been discussed in this blog. MB boasts of only shikhandi where Ramayana talks about Tadaka soorpnakha lankini as well.
LikeLike
@ Niraj,
Your statement-“Drona was kripas jeejaji and ashwtthamas father. His death may have left some bad vibes with kripa ashwatthama combo. But kritverma still hanging around with these guys is confusing. He could have told them bhai war khatam mera kaam khatam – contract over.”
My ans- Well yes, it was illogical on the part of kritverma to continue the fight even after the MB war over….. The only possible reason which i can think off is that kritverma may have felt the insult of losing the MB war(which is quiet obivious for a Kshatriya).. Hence he may have thought to eliminate Pandavas(by hook or krook/night attack), so that his defeat could have been nullified by killing Pandavas….. hence he also joined the night attack….
LikeLike
Yes. That’s the only possible/Logical explanation.
LikeLike
Did Bhima actually took the blood of Dusshashan for Draupadi’s hairs ??
Ans: No…. Bhima taking the blood of Dusshashan to Draupadi & Draupadi washing her hair with Dusshashan’s blood is NOT MENTIONED IN MB….
Because after killing Dusshashan, Bhima drank his blood(for his vow) & after this 10 Kuru brothers attacked Bhima & Bhima continued his fighting with them….
LikeLike
Nope. its interpolation in t.v. serials.
LikeLike
did draupadi take pledge I will keep my hair untied till I wash it with dushasana blood. That too IMHO is interpolation. to my knowledge she didn’t take any pledge. Nor she said andhe ka putr andha when duryodhana took a splash. as per KMG Vyasa she wasn’t even there when this incident took place. pandavas may have laughed.
LikeLike
Surprise….!! We have a mutual agreement on a point with Niraj…..!!
And YES draupadi did not take the pledge that she will keep her hair untied till she wash it with dushasana blood. …. Nor she said andhe ka putr andha when duryodhana took a splash, as per KMG Vyasa she wasn’t even there when this incident took place… Only Bhima laughed at that time….
LikeLike
bheeshmas pratigya that he will serve hastinapura and as per b.r. chopras serial main vartaman hastinapur naresh mein apne pita ki chavi ko dekhoonga is also an interpolation. There was no pratigya factor in bheeshma serving hastinapur, fighting for kurus and also his action or rather inaction in helping draupadi. Dronas position can be sympathised though. Dhritharashtra had given him employment when his own friend drupad had given him the boot. So the obligation factor to Dhritharashtra and his sons can be in his mind.
LikeLike
Surprise again…!! Is it Niraj who is talking or someone else….??!!
I wonder why u never supported me previously when i raised this same point of Bhishma’s personal biasedness towards kurus & none of his vow obliged him to support Kurus in MB war…. It was Bhishma’s personal choice to fight against Pandavas…..
Drona’s point is well made…..
LikeLike
Yes Mr. Sachin that’s me only. my point of biggest confusion in MB is Kritverma. This guy really gets the begaani shaadi main Abdullah deewana award. After the war Kripa and ashwatthama humping around for vendetta is also understandable. Drona was kripas jeejaji and ashwtthamas father. His death may have left some bad vibes with kripa ashwatthama combo. But kritverma still hanging around with these guys is confusing. He could have told them bhai war khatam mera kaam khatam – contract over.
LikeLike
Arre yeh kaise bhool gaya.
Karna vs Arjuna – LIST OF ADHARMAS DONE BY PANDAVA
Above facebook post has KMG GENUINE PASSAGES showing the bad deeds of pandavas. This is a nice CID Inspector Daya level jhapad on those who think pandav were dharma oriented. I have purposely written KMG genuine passages in bold for those who are suffering from partial blindness and later on claim he is quoting from faceboook ha ha ha hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Mere is harkat se kisi ke dil ko agar thes pahunchi hai to yeh harkat maine jaan boojh ke ki hai
LikeLike
@ Niraj,
ha ha ha ha ha ha…. Poor Niraj…. Defeated & frustrated… because he has no KMG passages to support his fake claims… hence showing his frustrations by crying “Facebook…Facebook(as if Mark Zukerberg had greater Knowledge then VYas or KMG)”…. ha ha ha ha ha ha.. Who cares what a losing NZ player says…. ha ha ha ha ha ha….. Facebook…. ha ha ha ha ha ha….
LikeLike
As expected worthless post expected reply expected accusation ie Niraj quotes face book for mb. whereas my post clearly says KMG passages quoted by facebook. and expected laughter followed by a fake claim of victory when he himself is defeated and frustrated. Genuinely defeated debater Sachin a billion dreams – all unfulfilled continues on this blog so does my wait of a genuine debater. whats with this blog I am wondering ? have debators stopped coming here? Or are afraid that Sachin will bore them with his worthless passages and accusations. blog history before Sachin was quite impressive. Debaters like smartboy gandharva visiting here regularly. smartboy stopped after sachin. and now so has Sanjay. Looks like a long wait for me here for the genuine debator.
LikeLike
@ Niraj,
ha ha ha ha … Niraj wants a “Genuine Debater”…!! This is just like, after losing the World cup to Australia, the NZ players says that he has not lost & he wants a “Genuine Team” like Bangaldesh to play the WC final again…..!! ha ha ha ha… Who cares what a lost NZ player says…. And “facebook”…. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha h
LikeLike
its Australia jis ki talash thi mujhe.. Niraj the indian has beaten sachin the Bangladeshi/Ziimbabwe black and blue ki aur peetne ko kuch raha nahee gaya. your laughter on facebook rant was expected. keep trying Bangladeshi/Zimbabwe cricketer. This Indian is not interested in beating a team already beaten.
LikeLike
Below list is from sachin a billion dreams.(all unfulfilled ) its not facebook its facebook which quotes genuine kmg passages. your laughter and false accusation was already expected My October debates clearly prove sachin defeated. Additions to my recommendation
Karna – ..ATI-MAHARATHI SURYAPUTRA KARNA
Karna vs Arjuna – … FAKE DEFEAT OF KARNA ON 14TH … – Facebook
Karna vs Arjuna – Exposing Arjuna fans – once again:-… | Facebook
Karna vs Arjuna – DEFEATS OF MONSTER BHIMA BY … – Facebook
Karna vs Arjuna – EXPOSING THE TRUTH OF RAJSUYA YAGYA …
Karna vs Arjuna – EXPOSING ONE DAY WARRIOR – SATYAKI …
Karna vs Arjuna – … MISCONCEPTION ABOUT BOON OF… | Facebook
Time has come to end chapter of great Abhimanyu forever. .
Karna vs Arjuna – MISCONCEPTION – Karna was responsible …for abhimanyus deaths
Karna vs Arjuna – KARNA AND THE LAKSHAGRIHA CONSPIRACY
…
All documented evidence with genuine KMG passages and Mr. Sachins own logics already quoted by me. Karna > Arjuna Karna > Bhima. As mentioned earlier I will debate with genuine debators not genuinely defeated debators. Bhima never defeated Karna in his carreer he got his life spared on battle day 14 and was booted away in all multiple attacks well supported by KMG passages and sachins logic as bhimas name was in those passages mentioned in Karna – ..ATI-MAHARATHI SURYAPUTRA KARNA
LikeLike
@ Niraj,
Since Niraj has AGAIN failed in his attempt to prove Karna’s victory over Bhima…. So the bottomline still remains the same- Bhima vs Karna = 6:0 ….
And the top 15 list remains as it is:
1. Arjun
2. Bhishma
3. Parshuram
4. Lakshman
5. Indrajeet
6. Bali
7. Ram
8. Drona
9. Abhimanyu
10. Bhima
11. Satyaki
12. Ashwatthama
13. Karna
14. Krishna
15. Balrama
LikeLike
@ Niraj,
Your statement-“passages of group attacks already given on umpteen occasion. No Mr. foreman ali not in the mood for rematch. readers who want see the passages can search within this blog or if they have difficult go to Karna – ..ATI-MAHARATHI SURYAPUTRA KARNA …”
My ans- ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha… Niraj himself ridiculed his own post by posting my response in advance as well….. ha ha ha ha ha ha…. And FACEBOOK….??? SERIOUSLY ???!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha….
Now, since Niraj u have failed to give the exact KMG lines which says that Bhima backed away from Karna (in group attack)… so ur claim stands PUNCTURED (as ever) …. ha ha ha ha ha … I really feel pity for your Pathetic situation in a debate with me…. FACEBOOK… !! ha ha ha ha ha…..
Your statement-“No Mr. foreman ali not in the mood for rematch.”
My ans- ha ha ha ha ha ha… Who is asking for a rematch with the NZ player…?? Because Australia(i.e. me) has already won the World cup, but the poor NZ player is still crying that he won the WC, hence Australia is simply asking(& laughing):- WHEN did this happen ????? ha ha ha ha ha ha…..
And about your post with FACEBOOK references,… i have only one respone to it –> ha ha ha ha ha ha ha….
LikeLike
Sachin are you partially blind. I had made it cleary its facebook which has SECTIONS of KMG passages. You wanted rematch at true meaning of gar not me.
LikeLike
Readers I recommend to visit these posts on facebook which has relevant KMG passages
Karna – ..ATI-MAHARATHI SURYAPUTRA KARNA as mentioned earlier and they have never met sachin but support sachins logic completely readers who doubted earlier have will see bhimas name and supported by sachins own logic -“ which is as follows “This is just like after a cricket match, the commentator says that Team India lost to Australia…. so now Sanjay is challenging me to show that where is it mentioned that Dhoni lost the match ?? bhimas name will be seen in those attacks.
Karna vs Arjuna – … FAKE DEFEAT OF KARNA ON 14TH … – Facebook
Relevant proof given karna was not defeated by bhima with passages. Again supporting Sachin logic of what actually happened ie in tune with both sachin and KMG
Karna vs Arjuna – Exposing Arjuna fans – once again:-… | Facebook
KMG Passages exposing fakes defeats of Karna again in tune with Sachins logic what actually happened ie in tune with both Sachin and KMG
Karna vs Arjuna – DEFEATS OF MONSTER BHIMA BY … – Facebook
There are some Karna haters who keep harping karna lost here karna lost there gandhavaras gurudakshina battle to drupad blah blah this post has KMG passages of how bhima lost to just about every tom,dick harry charlie Chaplin Mr. Bean, dada kondke , Mac mohan AK. Hangal, of mahabharata.
Above all info is more than sufficient to provide KMG passages to genuine MB enthusiast. I don’t think I have to quote further. My stand is same as I mentioned no debating with sachin. Yes if some genuine debater comes shows some integrity then I will debate with him. I may shoot in shoot out and if I see Sachin insulting me I will retaliate accordingly
LikeLike
@ Niraj,
Niraj, is still only giving LOGICS & his PERSONAL OPINION (instead of KMG lines) to prove his point….. who cares…
Your statement-“so stop crying on KMG on your preaching what actuall happened karna undefeated by bhima on battle 14”
My ans- Since u again raised this LOST debate of yours… & you r only giving your PERSONAL OPINION here, so i am obliged to ask you- PROVE IT FROM KMG OR DONT TALK IN AIR…..
Your statement-“on your logic bhima beating by karna in severial battalion attacks by Karna again your logic which is as follows “This is just like after a cricket match, the commentator says that Team India lost to Australia…. so now Sanjay is challenging me to show that where is it mentioned that Dhoni lost the match ?? so I have made both my points based on your logic and preaching supporting.”
My ans- Very funny…. You r still giving LOGICS & PERSONAL OPINIONS only…..
The comparison is Invalid….. Karna’s intention to Burn Draupadi was a Debatable point, because there is no clear cut mention of Karna himself saying that he wants to burn Draupdi, hence Sanjay was not accepting this point….. But here, the point in favour of my debate was that Karna actually attacked Draupadi/Drupad/Brahmins & later got defeated by Arjun(actual event mentioned in KMG)…. But there is no such lines mentioning Bhima’s name in Backing off or running away from Karna during severial battalion attack…. So your counter-logic point does not stand here… If u have passages to show that Bhima actually backed-off from an ACTIVE FIGHT against Karna, then show me those KMG LINES, otherwise who cares….
LikeLike
passages of group attacks already given on umpteen occasion. No Mr. foreman ali not in the mood for rematch. readers who want see the passages can search within this blog or if they have difficult go to Karna – ..ATI-MAHARATHI SURYAPUTRA KARNA … – Facebook. Please don’t be deceived by Sachin next accusation on me which I can predict will be as follows “so now Niraj is advocating facebook instead of KMG ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha . what a pathetic debator. Arre bhai facebook source thodi ho sakta hai. Genuine readers please be informed that this facebook quotes genuine passages from KMG Vyasas and readers who doubted earlier have will see bhimas name and supported by sachins own logic -“ which is as follows “This is just like after a cricket match, the commentator says that Team India lost to Australia…. so now Sanjay is challenging me to show that where is it mentioned that Dhoni lost the match ?? bhimas name will be seen in those attacks. This isn’t about Sachin any longer. its about Karna fans who may think karna was inferior glorified on by t.v. serials. on this facebook they will see umpteen action scenes. aur galat faimeen door ho jayegi.
LikeLike
@ Niraj,
Ha..ha..ha… Niraj, its so funny to see u in such pathetic state of debating…. Bhima’s 4 victories over Karna on day 14 has been proved on umpteen times in this blog ON THE BASIS OF KMG …. And so when u found out that you cannot win this debate ON THE BASIS OF KMG, so now u r giving references of other bloggers(like Mr Invincible)(instead of KMG !!) to prove ur point, as if Mr Invincible is bigger than KMG…. Ha..ha..ha…
Bhima’s 4 victories over Karna on day 14 stays as true as ever…..
And stop crying & complaining to Dhruv again & again, because Dhruv is a smart guy, he very well knows who started the foul languages in this blog(& that’s you Niraj)….. So your Dirty techniques wont work now…..
LikeLike
kmg is author he has written the book we can debate with some external un biased seeing our debate decided that you have lost pathetically KMG didn’t kiss your rosy cheeks and appoint you as his spoke person. And you are dancing on KMGs name ha ha ha joke of the millennium. You have pooh poohed KMG all along you were the one who preached don’t be deceived by what is written in KMG see what actually has a happened in the event. so stop crying on KMG on your preaching what actuall happened karna undefeated by bhima on battle 14 and on your logic bhima beating by karna in severial battalion attacks by Karna again your logic which is as follows “This is just like after a cricket match, the commentator says that Team India lost to Australia…. so now Sanjay is challenging me to show that where is it mentioned that Dhoni lost the match ?? so I have made both my points based on your logic and preaching supporting. So its not your debating which is pathetic its your character which is pathetic. that you couldn’t practice what your preached. I am not complaining I have given you warning. I can put you in your place on all levels be it debating or taming a brat like you
LikeLike
Sachin the very fact you wanted rematch in itself is proof that you lost. I don’t want to call your top 15 list as rubbish because rubbish also has some value. Proof of your double standards in debating given by my and any person can see how you were defeated. One person who came in this blog as pandava friendly ending up agreeing with me that’s Mr Invincible who saw my debates and your defeat and said as follows
Mr. Invincible says:
October 10, 2016 at 12:20 pm
Rate This
@niraj
Your debate of bhima-karna battle of 14th day made me rethink. Earlier I was believing that karna was repeatedly defeated by bhima. But now my understanding is that although karna had to leave the active battle, he did so by himself. I mean bhima could not get karna within his control. But when karna gained upper hand at last, bhima was trapped. He cannot escape by himself. That’s why Arjuna had to interfere. When karna lost his weapons and chariot, he did not yield to bhima but quickly escaped and returned with fresh equipment. But when bhima lost his equipment, he could not do the same. Instead he proposed wrestling to bring karna to a level playing field. In the absence of external help from arjun, situation is in karna’s favour here.( ha ha ha comedy to yeh hai that sachin was dancing with joy when Mr. Invincible had arrived in this blog. We ended up celebrating.
Mr. Sachin ise kehte hain integrity. Debating ethics. I didn’t quote sanjay supporting me because he is karna fan. My stand is clear you have already been defeated and any debator with integrity (like Mr. Invincible can see your defeat) Mr. Dhruv reading here please be informed after you had warned both me and sachin you made a blog on us sad to see latest developments I had stopped insulting language sachin continued do so. Even after you stopped the blog and restarted it its sachin who used insulting language on me after our interaction on baka raptors blog. Not only he is unashamed he has actually criticised you of closing the blog as if you the boss of the blog owes him some explanation. All of sachins anti karna points have been refuted his status as a person with double standards have been proven by me. He will keep using pharases saying personal opinion hence invalid make false claims etc etc. Sorry george foreman. Mohammad ali has defeated you and no rematch. Some ethical debator comes up with some new points I will see. Sachin If your use insulting language I will retaliate accordingly and if dhruv closes down blog then you cant even go to baka raptor begging for a rematch because voh blog to band ho gaya.
LikeLike
@ Niraj,
Ha..ha..ha… Niraj, be thankful to Dhruv that he closed down this blog for some time in between, otherwise u had left no corner to hide your face after you got humiliated & defeated in the discussion with me…..
U also ran away from Baka-Raptor blog…. Ha..ha..ha… And your top 15 list is as rubbish & funny as ever… So Who cares….. Ha..ha..ha…
LikeLike
Final revised list as follows
1. Lord Rama
2. Lord Krishna
3. Lord Parshurama
4. Hanumana
5. Karna
6. Lakshamana
7. Balrama
8. Bheeshma
9. Drona
10. Ashwattma
11. Indrajeet
12. Babhruvahana
13. Arjuna
14. Bhagdatta
15. Kritverma
above list is based on dvanda yudha one to one warrior basis. any debater who is honest and has integrity to accept evidence ( except Sachin whom I have beaten on umpteen occasions ) is most welcome to debate with me.
LikeLike
Mr. Dhruv/Readers I wont use insulting language unless Mr. Sachin provokes me however one imp note on him. Please see his double standards
draupadi swayamvara some monarchs were mentioned attacking draupadi Karna name not mentioned still Sachin considered Karna tried to kill draupadi. Below is a section of his interaction with mr. Sanjay another blogger has defeated sachin on umpteen ocassion.
1. Sachin
March 31, 2014 at 3:25 am
Dear Sanjay,
Regarding your questions:
My ans- Very funny again…. This is just like after a cricket match, the commentator says that Team India lost to Australia…. so now Sanjay is challenging me to show that where is it mentioned that Dhoni lost the match ?? Similarly, Sanjay is asking me to show the lines of KMG where Karna says to burn draupadi, while it is clearly mentioned that all Monarchs(which included Karna) planned to kill Drupad & burn Drauadi alive……
Dear Dhruv But when I showed battle scenes all warriors including bhima attacking Karna and all of them turning back. Sachin insist bhima was not in those warriors who were repelled by Karna where as in those passages bhimas name WAS MENTIONED and on monarchs attacking Karnas name NOT mentioned.. Not that it did him any good he kept loosing consistently to me. My stand to you is clear. Mohammed ali is not giving foreman a rematch. Some ethical debator comes I will thing about it. No use defeating him again and again.
LikeLike
since Mr. sachin has lost all his debates with me and I have refused to give him rematch. this list can be read from back words warrior 15th first warrior 14th second and warrior 13th third greatest so on so forth. mb fans can read my posts with him refuring all his claims and decide themselves who won.
LikeLike
Dear Friends,
Since every blogger in this blog failed to refute my top 15 list & since my last debator-Mr Niraj has lost all of his arguements with me, so the all time top 15 list of Greatest Warrior stays as it is:
1. Arjun
2. Bhishma
3. Parshuram
4. Lakshman
5. Indrajeet
6. Bali
7. Ram
8. Drona
9. Abhimanyu
10. Bhima
11. Satyaki
12. Ashwatthama
13. Karna
14. Krishna
15. Balrama
LikeLike
Babruvahan defeated Arjun so he should be no. 1
LikeLike
Hi Sanjay welcome back. But sorry I beg to differ. We just cant look at results only. Pros and cons to be evaluated. Arjuna was a man known to be soft on his relatives he knew babhruvahana was his son so he wasn’t firing his most powerful divyastras . so hence these factors count. Babhruvahana vs arjuna cant be taken into arjuna evaluation. I may be a karna fan but cant play double standards.
LikeLike
Great blog. Cheers for showing us.
LikeLike
Hello
LikeLike
As predicted George foreman wanting a rematch with mohammad ali. Sachin se entry nahi mili. so
Sachin5555555. Baka raptor had to close down his blog because I declined from giving Sachin a rematch. Even after dhruvs warning Sachin had not refrained from abusive language and personal insults.
LikeLike
Dear Sanjay As per KMG mahabharata, Karna had nine sons (though 7-8 sons seems to be interpolated to overglorify pandava warriors).
Vishnu puraan does mentions vrishasena as son of Karna but does not mention him killed. I believe Skanda puraan shows a son of Karna doing annadaan on his behalf after Karna died ( I will verify this later ) Logic is simple. You cant pull down Amitabh bachchan you will target Abhishek Bacchan as he is not as famous as successful as his father. Jeetendra is too much of a himmatwala so try pulling down Tushar Kapoor. These fake Abhishek Bacchans and Tushar Kapoors were created for this reason. With Bheeshma drona the pandavas had excuses that one is my grandsire other a guru so I was not aggressive enough against them hence they were not killed cleanly by me. But with Karna this didn’t work as the fact the was their elder brother was told to them later. Hence these fake sons ie Tushar Kapoors and Abhishek Bacchans were created.
Original –
1. Vrishasena (may be interpolated)
2. Vrishaketu
Interpolated –
3. Chitrasena
4. Satyasena
5. Sushena
6. Shatrunjaya
7. Dvipata
8. Banasena
9. Prasena
Interpolated death of Sushena :
A) Uttamauja slew Sushena on 17th day of war
The heroic Uttamauja, putting forth his strength struck the son of Karna and cut off his head which fell down on the earth, filling the earth and the welkin with a loud noise.
B) Nakula slew Sushena on 18th day of war –
Nakula sped it with great force at Karna’s son in that battle. With that arrow, O best of kings, the son of Pandu cut off from Sushena’s trunk the latter’s head in the very sight of all the troops
Uttamauja had killed Sushena on 17th day and Nakula slew same Sushena on next day. LOL :v How is it possible to kill same person twice..?? 😛 It proves that his death is an interpolation. As per original mahabharat, Karna had only two sons – Vrishasen and Vrishaketu. Following are the reasons]
– Only vrishasen has been described during entire epic. When Bhishma had recited Ratha-maharatha, he only mentioned vrishasen as the son of Karna. Vrishaketu was 14 yrs old just kid hence he didn’t participate in war. But Bhishma didn’t mention other 7 sons of Karna. It proves that other 7 sons are interpolated
– During Aashramvastika parv, souls of only two sons of Karna arose from Bhagirathi river – Vrishasen and his younger brother (Vrishaketu who was slain by vabruvahan in ashwamedha parv). So Karna had only two sons
Passage from KMG –
There were the son of Jarasandha, and Bhagadatta, and Jalasandha of great energy, and Bhurisravas, and Sala, and Salya, and VRISHASENA with his YOUNGER BROTHER.
They properly burned upon those fires that blazed forth with libations of clarified butter in torrents over them, the bodies of Duryodhana and his hundred brothers, of Shalya, and king Bhurishrava; of Karna and his son of great wrath
LikeLike